2012 Presidential Election

[SoCal]

Moon, your Bush Derangment Syndrome (BDS) is flaring up again. I think there's a poweder for that.

BTW, presidents do not introduce bills. Anyone may initiate an idea for a bill, but only a member of Congress can introduce the bill.

[Mistermoonlight]

I use 'introducing a bill' as a euphamism for 'declaring,' with the assumption that Congress had already been sent on permanent recess.



In further election news, today Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan called on Missouri Republican Senator Todd Aiken to drop out of that race for for his comments as to why women should not have the right to abortion in cases of rape, "If it's a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down."

Of course, Aiken went into Dana Carvey mode at this point, declaring 'not gonna do it. wouldn't be prudent.'

Although the call has also been made to strike the word 'news' from Fox News and replace it with "Corporate-Sponsored 'We Don't Need No Regulations' Infomercials," so far there has been no response. Maybe after the Aiken thing.

Also, guess who's still out there?



Who just a few minutes ago pulled 17 of Louisiana's delegates to the Republican National Convention.

Speaking of which:Hurricane Isaac is also on-track to the Republican National Convention in Tampa next week.



Never count the Big Guy out.

And Ron Paul would want me to remind you not to count God out, either.

[SoCal]

If you want to get rid of ALL the members of the Senate and the House who have said stupid things, why didn't the democrats get rid of this guy when he said this:



Or this guy:



Or this guy:



Or this guy:



Can you say "DOUBLE STANDARD?"

[KyleEl]

I just keep hearing worse news about Romney and Ryan.

I saw a photo of Ryan and want to know if his Mommy approves of him staying away from home for so long.

It sounds like they're just going to take care of their own and the rest of us have to fend for ourselves.

I wish Colin Powell was running.

[SoCal]

Oh, please.

Not even worth a comment.

[KyleEl]

Mike Huckabee said in his morning commentary the Democrats will make their convention all about abortion. Why don't we just swear in Romney now if they can't do better than that.

And in his afternoon commentary, he said the networks are only going to have an hour a night of coverage, and only on three nights. And he won't be shown since he's speaking Monday night.

Whatever happens, it's going to be wild around here in a couple of weeks. I don't know whether my community will be directly affected (probably not), but it'll be all over the newspaper and TV stations.

[SoCal]

The dems have invited well known 32-year old slut, uh, student, Sandra Fluke to speak at their convention. Do you suppose she and her other friends (who are can't have as much sex as they want because the taxpayers won't pay for their pills) have discovered that they can get contraceptives for less than $90 a year at Walmart?

I suppose they'll also show a short film on the detrimental effects that putting the dog's carrier on the roof of a car can produce.

Then Joe Biden can show his film: "Gaffes, or how to put your foot in your mouth everytime you speak."

And finally, Obama can give us a slide show on his visits to all 57 states.

Gonna be a crazy 72(?) days.

[Deleted]

Aug 21, 2012 20:29:55 GMT -5 SoCal said:

If you want to get rid of ALL the members of the Senate and the House who have said stupid things, why didn't the democrats get rid of this guy when he said this:

That wasn't a stupid thing to say, it was DISGRACEFUL. Which sadly doesn't surprised me since the ring wing is filled with misogynistic pigs.

[SoCal]

Your post makes no sense.

[Mistermoonlight]

Aug 24, 2012 15:41:43 GMT -5 KyleEl said:

Mike Huckabee said in his morning commentary the Democrats will make their convention all about abortion. Why don't we just swear in Romney now if they can't do better than that.

And in his afternoon commentary, he said the networks are only going to have an hour a night of coverage, and only on three nights. And he won't be shown since he's speaking Monday night.

Whatever happens, it's going to be wild around here in a couple of weeks. I don't know whether my community will be directly affected (probably not), but it'll be all over the newspaper and TV stations.

Huckabee, who works for the always-bipartisan Fox News, is one of the few Republicans who hasn't called for Aiken to step down.

In saying that the Democratic convention will be "all about abortion" he's using the old 'I'm rubber and you're glue, bounces off me and sticks to you' tactic that we know so well from schoolyard days.

In fact, Huckabee just sent out a fund-raising email supporting Aiken (who has a creepy take on science that would deny the choice of abortion to women who have been raped), and excoriating Republican party leaders for abandoning him. Of course, Mitt Romney himself has already asked Aiken to step down. So it sounds like Huckabee is no longer much of a fan.

thepage.time.com/2012/08/23/huckabee-goes-all-in-for-akin/

[Aeryn]

Aug 22, 2012 12:19:05 GMT -5 KyleEl said:

I saw a photo of Ryan and want to know if his Mommy approves of him staying away from home for so long.

That's what I always think when I see him.

[KyleEl]

Ann Romney seemed too perky, like a Miss America contestant, but everything she said was good.

Everything Chris Christie said was good, too.

However ...

Too many people who have those hard jobs never advanced beyond them and their kids never do any better either. Of course the Republicans think that if you don't that must be your fault and you're not entitled to anything.

And the rich get richer ...

[Deleted]

Sad truth^

[SoCal]

Aug 29, 2012 13:34:22 GMT -5 KyleEl said:

Ann Romney seemed too perky, like a Miss America contestant, but everything she said was good.

Everything Chris Christie said was good, too.

However ...

Too many people who have those hard jobs never advanced beyond them and their kids never do any better either. Of course the Republicans think that if you don't that must be your fault and you're not entitled to anything.

And the rich get richer ...

I believe republicans want everyone to have the chance at upward mobility; the big difference between them and democrats is democrats want to take my money to give to others.

I've never heard any republican say that "you're not entitled to anything," but there has to be a limit to the amount of tax money taken from some and given to others.

"And the rich get richer?" Yeah, just check in with Nancy Pelosi, Barbara Boxer, John Kerry, John Edwards, Harry Reid, etc. Plenty of rich dems who use the same tax laws to keep their money out of the taxman's hands.

[Aeryn]

The problem I have with Romney is his stance on abortion. Every woman has the right to decide what happens with her own body. And the more I look at him, the more he looks like the Anti Christ.

I don't want Obama as President, and now I don't want Romney either. I've always considered myself a Republican, but now...

*shrugs*

[Mistermoonlight]

You know what I want? I want Gene Rodenberry's version of the future as encapsulated in Star Trek.

I want a world in which no one has to struggle with hunger and poverty. A world in which health care for all people is a given, not a question. Where we have brought everyone to the point where all the basic needs are met, and they don't have to worry about health care. A world in which people can concentrate on the areas where their talents lie to best serve humanity.

A world in which we honestly see ourselves as one on this planet, and where war, racism, and sexism do not exist. Where we have solved all of those problems.

I don't think we deserve anything less than this, and I do believe we can make it happen. All we have to do is get rid of our greed, and work for the common cause of the betterment of mankind.

It's a world in which education and exploration and knowledge are at the forefront, and where fear and pseudo-science, and looking out for self have been replaced.

It's a world we can have, if we have the courage to do it.

The Democrats do come closer, because they care for the poor, and those without voices in the increasing (and disturbing) corperatization of America.

Neither of our parties has this kind of vision now. We need one that does.

We need a sea change in politics, because our system, as it is now, is utterly broken and abysmal.

So, in the meanwhile I will continue to value the party that supports individual Americans over corporations, until something better comes along.

And please, may it come soon. We're bigger than this.

We're bigger than we ever dared dream we could be.

[SoCal]

Ah Moon, you sound like every 18-year old high school senior/college freshman I've ever known, including myself.

If only, if only....if only people were nicer to each other; if only everyone had everything they needed for a comfortable life; if only no one wanted to kill someone else to take what they have; if only other countries weren't so jealous of our (for the most part) hard working citizens who value life and liberty enough to try to bring that ideal to others.

If only.....

You know, I remember a time when democrats violently opposed integration; when they fought against letting black students in their schools. You know who passed the Civil Rights Act? Republicans.

Democrats say they care about "the people," but all they want to do is keep them in their current state so that they may continue to bleed the rest of us of our hard earned money for programs that haven't been very successful in keeping our fellow citizens out of poverty, off of drugs, in school and keeping a job.

To me, the real meaning of caring for our fellow man is seeing the number of people who need these programs DECREASE because they don't need the charity (forced charity) of others.

I will continue to oppose any politician who espouses the continued increased taxation of any honest working man or woman to give (what is left of the money after the politicians gets his/her slice) to others.

I do not believe in Utopia. I have never seen a Utopia outside of fairy books.

As my brother's 6th grad teacher, a nun, by the way said to a member of his class, after he bemoaned the fact that something "wasn't fair," "Nothing's fair this side of heaven."


Government "help" to business is just as disastrous as government persecution... the only way a government can be of service to national prosperity is by keeping its hands off.
Ayn Rand


The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities.
Ayn Rand



We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history, the stage of rule by brute force.
Ayn Rand



Do not ever say that the desire to "do good" by force is a good motive. Neither power-lust nor stupidity are good motives.
Ayn Rand

[Mistermoonlight]

You know what? I don't care about reasons why not that are thrown up by people who don't have bigger ideals.

Those are only obstacles to be surmounted. And we will. Because I have faith in us as a people.

Give us some truly big thoughts on where we're going as a people and I'll be impressed,

Martin Luther King once had a vision, and it came to pass.

I hope that mine does too. But it's not just mine. It belongs to everyone who wants it.

The system is completely broken, and it calls for people bigger than self to come forward and help create something that will work in the 21st century for all mankind.

Hold on to the old ideas if you want, but there is something better in our future. Otherwise we don't have one.

A system in which two sides are so entrenched that there is no true bipartisan debate on issues serves no one at all. It's a joke, and not even a very good one.

[davidhayes1956]

Aug 29, 2012 17:48:28 GMT -5 SoCal said:

Do not ever say that the desire to "do good" by force is a good motive. Neither power-lust nor stupidity are good motives.
Ayn Rand

So when a parent takes the hand of a child and yanks the child back from walking into traffic, that is not a good act? When armed forces make those in control of concentration camps give up and open the gates to free those inside, ... that doesn't represent a good motive? If someone had tried by force to keep that person in Colorado from going into that movie theater with weapons, that would not be a good motive ... especially since it interfered with that person's freedom of expression. We can not have the kind of freedoms that are derived from the suffering of others. Of the expressed desired rights for "Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness," life is mentioned first and life usually means having food and sometimes means having medical care and shelter. And if those are rights only for those who can pay for them, then the words don't really mean a thing.

[Mistermoonlight]

Exactly. They don't mean a thing if they are only for those who can afford them.

That's an elitist society, not an eglatarian one.

[davidhayes1956]

Ayn Rand expressed the belief that, if a creator's concepts were violated in execution in violation of a contract, the creator had the right to destroy what was not made in accordance with his plan. For anyone who has had their designs subverted, it is a nice escapist fantasy to imagine destroying the polluted results that others make of your dreams. Her viewpoint was a great counterpoint to team mentality (or team mediocrity) but many people think their ideals are flawless and everything would end up being blown up in a world based upon her ideals.

[Mistermoonlight]

There are some beliefs of Rand that stand starkly against conservative philosophy (I hesitate to even call it that) in the current times. Some that go completely against the entire 'faith' VS scientific knowledge' psuedo-debate.

"Rand advocated reason as the only means of acquiring knowledge and rejected all forms of faith and religion."

How does that really sit with the conservative Christian wing of the Republican party?

"She supported rational and ethical egoism, and rejected ethical altruism. In politics, she condemned the initiation of force as immoral and opposed all forms of collectivism and statism, instead supporting laissez-faire capitalism, which she believed was the only social system that protected individual rights."

Ok, so no wars, right?

She rejects ethical altruism.

Did you get that? Sorry, Superman, there's no place for you in Rand's world.

She supports 'ethical egoism' instead. She calls it 'the virtue of selfishness.'

Thanks, but I think I can find other folks who have a bigger worldview for us as a people and for individuals than her. It wouldn't really be hard to do.

Hers is a very narrow mind, not one of the scope we need to advance as a society.

We need someone much bigger than that. And probably, most people are.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayn_Rand

[davidhayes1956]

There is a new book out called "The New New Deal" that goes point by point through the stimulus package that is so much in debate these days. The author who took a bi-partisan stance, tried to find some of the provisions most criticized in public debate and found a lot of those items either didn't exist or were exaggerated out of all proportion. What he found was that, rather than simply handing out money to 'put out fires,' the funds focused on stimulating new industries we know we need in the future that we're able to get off the ground without help. The conclusion is that history will probably show that the stimulus money being spent when and how it was spent (and despite some out and out failures), probably saved the US economy and got us moving in a healthier direction with more potential for economic growth in the future. Sometimes, a poison's effect doesn't show up for a while (like bad decisions by previous administrations) and the cure takes time to take effect and show visible signs of what it has done. Sometimes you have to go into debt to insure the possibility of getting out of debt later. Individuals can go bankrupt and start fresh. The US has to get itself retooled so it can function so that it can pay off the debt in the future. I am going through the same thing on a personal level at the moment. I have vacated rentals that I don't have the money to fix. But if I don't fix them, I can't rent them and won't have the income to pay the debt and taxes on them. So I either have to find a way to fix the properties or I will lose it all -- and I don't mean the properties. No one wants them. I will lose anything I have that others may value. It means going through a period of doing without and hardship, but at least I'm in the boat alone and don't have to explain to others why they have to suffer with me in order to be out of debt sometime in the future.

[Mistermoonlight]

Paragraphs, David, paragraphs!

Makes it so much easier to read.

[SoCal]

China, the Soviet Union, Cuba and more recently Greece, France and Italy.

That's what happens when governments take from their citizens and purport to "do good for all."

I'm still waiting for an example of a country where 90% taxation has led to a higher quality of life. And it's not Sweden either, a country with one of the highest suicide rates in the world.

Ayn Rand wasn't talking about a mother saving her child, she was referring to a government stealing from you and telling you it's for your own good.

Come on....offer more than platitudes.

As for clinging to old ideas.....I will cling to freedom and individual liberty for a lifetime. There's nothing better.

[Mistermoonlight]

Aug 29, 2012 19:00:02 GMT -5 @davidhayes1956 said:

There is a new book out called "The New New Deal" that goes point by point through the stimulus package that is so much in debate these days. The author who took a bi-partisan stance, tried to find some of the provisions most criticized in public debate and found a lot of those items either didn't exist or were exaggerated out of all proportion. What he found was that, rather than simply handing out money to 'put out fires,' the funds focused on stimulating new industries we know we need in the future that we're able to get off the ground without help. The conclusion is that history will probably show that the stimulus money being spent when and how it was spent (and despite some out and out failures), probably saved the US economy and got us moving in a healthier direction with more potential for economic growth in the future. Sometimes, a poison's effect doesn't show up for a while (like bad decisions by previous administrations) and the cure takes time to take effect and show visible signs of what it has done. Sometimes you have to go into debt to insure the possibility of getting out of debt later. Individuals can go bankrupt and start fresh. The US has to get itself retooled so it can function so that it can pay off the debt in the future. I am going through the same thing on a personal level at the moment. I have vacated rentals that I don't have the money to fix. But if I don't fix them, I can't rent them and won't have the income to pay the debt and taxes on them. So I either have to find a way to fix the properties or I will lose it all -- and I don't mean the properties. No one wants them. I will lose anything I have that others may value. It means going through a period of doing without and hardship, but at least I'm in the boat alone and don't have to explain to others why they have to suffer with me in order to be out of debt sometime in the future.

I do think that the stimulus saved our asses, and not only that, it was the result of the widespread deregulation of the finacial services industries that happened in the past two decades (and you can probably guess which party and lobbyists were involved in that.)

Similarly the cry was to let the American automobile industry die rather than help them out. Aren't we glad that we did now? Or would Americans hope for their demise in order to promote one particular political ideology?

I agree with you, David. I think the 'retooled' means drastic changes are needed, but not of the kind that leave us prey to those who have the most money to pay for their point of view being the dominant, or only one. I'd rather see one that is fair to all people.

[SoCal]

The so-called stimulus saved NOTHING:

General Motors Is Headed For Bankruptcy -- Again

President Obama is proud of his bailout of General Motors. That’s good, because, if he wins a second term, he is probably going to have to bail GM out again. The company is once again losing market share, and it seems unable to develop products that are truly competitive in the U.S. market.

Right now, the federal government owns 500,000,000 shares of GM, or about 26% of the company. It would need to get about $53.00/share for these to break even on the bailout, but the stock closed at only $20.21/share on Tuesday. This left the government holding $10.1 billion worth of stock, and sitting on an unrealized loss of $16.4 billion.

Right now, the government’s GM stock is worth about 39% less than it was on November 17, 2010, when the company went public at $33.00/share. However, during the intervening time, the Dow Jones Industrial Average has risen by almost 20%, so GM shares have lost 49% of their value relative to the Dow.

It’s doubtful that the Obama administration would attempt to sell off the government’s massive position in GM while the stock price is falling. It would be too embarrassing politically. Accordingly, if GM shares continue to decline, it is likely that Obama would ride the stock down to zero.

GM is unlikely to hit the wall before the election, but, given current trends, the company could easily do so again before the end of a second Obama term.

Forbes magazine, August 15, 2012
Louis Woodhill, contributor

[Mistermoonlight]

The system is broken to the core, and simply throwing up the same 'I'm right, you're wrong' arguments will not fix it.

Show us something new, innovative, and bold from your own mind.

In other words, something completely different than what Glen Beck, Rush Limbough, and Fox News have come up with. It isn't that hard. They aren't very smart.

Then I might be impressed.

[3sheets2thewind]

Jane Romney is making the rounds, telling women to trust her-Mitt will not touch their rights when it comes to abortion.

Tell that to women who live in states like Florida and Texas where they have pushed..AND passed legislation that forces a woman to get an ultrasound before she gets an abortion.

Tell that to women that lives in a state like Georgia that NOT ONLY has followed Texas and Florida's lead, but has passed laws will go through their medical records to see if she had a miscarriage, and if it is true, forces her to face the death penalty.

Tell that to women who live in states like South Dakota where it forces them to seek religious counselling BEFORE seeking an abortion.

Tell that to the woman who lies in Nebraska that was forced to give birth to a 22 week old fetus that did not have any lungs, and had to sit AND watch helplessly as her child suffered for 15 minutes before expiring.

Tell that to women who have representatives in Congress that passed laws that RE-WROTE the language of rape.

Tell that to women who lived in Nevada during the 2010 mid-term elections when Sharon Angle, the Tea Party candidate who went against U.S Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, when she compared a woman who was raped by a family member as "turning lemons into lemonade".

Tell that to women like Sandra Fluke, who had the opportunity to testify before Congress as to why women need and use contraceptives, ONLY to be rebuffed when the Republican controlled House refused to listen to her, and went with an ALL MALE panel, THEN was insulted by a Conservative Commentator for three days.

Tell that to women who live in states where the victim has to apologize to the rapist.

Tell that to women when Republicans in Congress and the Senate want to pass legislation that kills funding to Planned Parenthood.

Tell that to women who have responded with such hostility from Todd Akin's remarks on rape and pregnancy.

Tell that to women who live in states like Mississippi when they are trying to push for "Personhood Amendments".

Tell that to women when part of the RNC's topics is on trying to push their anti-abortion agenda ALL OVER THE COUNTRY!!!!

Feel the cold sting of truth, and face the facts.

You, your brother Mitt, and the GOP/TP...have lost women voters.

[Mistermoonlight]

It's ironic that groups who advocate so strongly for individual rights as being more important than the rights of us as a people have so little regard for individuals in the end.