7.17 Born-Again Identity Sneak Peek

[waggy3015]

There is a new sneak peek for 7.17's episode up at Spoilertv.

One of my first thoughts was poor Sam. He seems so defeated, and given what he's telling Dean, appears resigned to the idea that it's always going to be like this, so he(Dean) shouldn't even try to find a way to help him(Sam).

Does anybody remember a Season 1 Episode of Angel where Cordelia has this vision that puts her in a catatonic state? Her eyes are open and we, the audience, knows that her brain is going a mile a minute with visions of people in trouble.

My point is, I wish we'd kind of see that with Sam, instead of him just talking with Dean. I mean, I can see some great scenes with Lucifer taunting Sam. But also, we can have some great scenes with scared/panicked/angsty Dean. Maybe talking with Sam, telling him he'll be alright, he(Dean) swears he'll fix him, etc.

IMO, the best of both worlds.

[Mistermoonlight]

And here's the video:

[SoCal]

So Sam STILL isn't telling Dean everything. Ya...that always works.

[1027phoenix]

Mar 20, 2012 19:16:02 GMT -5 SoCal said:

So Sam STILL isn't telling Dean everything. Ya...that always works.

What? Please explain your comment. As posted, it makes no sense to me.

[SoCal]

Well, since you said please......

Lucifer is right there, still talking to Sam and he doesn't say anything to Dean about his "being there" tormenting him.
How is Dean supposed to know when Sam is hallucinating if Sam doesn't tell him?

[seanachai]

Sam told Dean about Lucifer and what he doing more than once in the previous episode. He also told him it was constant so how many times does Dean need to be told? Does he need a blow-by-blow of every single minute? Imagine how boring an episode that would be 'Dean, he's talking to me now.' (Two minutes later) 'Dean, he's singing to me now' (Two minutes later) 'Dean, he's sitting beside me now' etc etc. Not keeping up this running commentary is not keeping things from Dean.

Sam is (evidently) in an institution. You don't get sent there because of a broken nail. So unless Dean thinks that Sam has been hit with another kind of crazy, Dean knows its because of hallucinations. He doesn't need to be reminded of it constantly.

[1027phoenix]

SoCal
Thanks for the reply. I wasn't sure what you meant but now I understand.
I do think that Dean would already know that Sam is hallucinating so not sure why Sam would have to tell him at this point.

[SoCal]

Phoenix:

Perhaps you're right. But Dean knows very little about what's going on in Sam's head. WE know, because we can see what's happening, but Dean doesn't see that.

We also know that Dean tried to get Sam to open up to him about Hell since he had been there and knew the difference between Hell and hallucinations, but Sam blew him off.

I think we've seen over the course of 6+ years that Sam keeps a lot of stuff to himself and while Dean may try that for a while, he usually comes clean with Sam....including his stint in Hell, meeting his mom and dad when Cas sent him back in time, telling Sam that the angels told Dean to stop Sam from using his psychic powers to expel demons (using demon blood), etc. Maybe I am missing something, but I don't think Sam has been as forthcoming with Dean.

That being said, I love both characters and am really looking forward to the next episode.

[Mistermoonlight]

Mar 21, 2012 1:29:40 GMT -5 seanachai said:

Sam told Dean about Lucifer and what he doing more than once in the previous episode. He also told him it was constant so how many times does Dean need to be told? Does he need a blow-by-blow of every single minute? Imagine how boring an episode that would be 'Dean, he's talking to me now.' (Two minutes later) 'Dean, he's singing to me now' (Two minutes later) 'Dean, he's sitting beside me now' etc etc. Not keeping up this running commentary is not keeping things from Dean.

Sam is (evidently) in an institution. You don't get sent there because of a broken nail. So unless Dean thinks that Sam has been hit with another kind of crazy, Dean knows its because of hallucinations. He doesn't need to be reminded of it constantly.

Hi Seanachai, this is way overdue, but welcome aboard! So glad you found us! Great to have another member of our family back home. Have fun!

[ravanne]

I'm actually probably giving Dean a lot more leeway in regards to how he's responding to what's happening with Sam than I probably should. Dean does have a great deal on his plate and is right now barely keeping his head above water. They have lost their entire support network, leaving both Winchesters completely alone right now. Their surrogate father is dead. All of their friends are lost to them. Castiel betrayed them in the worst way possible and left an enormous mess to clean up as a result. If there are any two people in the universe who have ample right to feel overwhelmed by their circumstances, it's Sam and Dean.

But because right now they are the only real support for one another it's even more critical that they keep an eye on how one another is doing. These are two men who spend a great deal of effort to downplay what is happening with them (that is when you can get them to admit that something is wrong at all). That Sam is admitting that he is having problems at all is a huge change that should be huge red flag that there is a lot more going on that Sam is letting on to. When someone you know normally would hide something being wrong suddenly starts being open about what is happening, that should be a big signal that something is up. If Sam is telling Dean that Lucifer has been serenading him with Led Zeppelin on a loop, that's probably the most benign thing that's going on.

I'm not blaming Dean for this because he's so overwhelmed with what has been going on that he's taken a strict triage attitude. If it bleeds, it leads. If Sam is functional (more or less) take it as good and worry about when things becoming worse when that actually happens. And given that there wasn't a great deal that Dean could actually do to help Sam, it is easily rationalized. But it also ensured that Sam would have to reach the crisis point before Dean tried to find some kind of aid. Most military folk will tell you that when you are out with your troops, you have a responsibility to watch out for one another. You can't just ignore things because someone doesn't say something because you are depending on one another to stay alive. Dean broke the most basic rule that a soldier follows by turning a blind eye to what was happening to Sam for so long. He knew that very likely something was very wrong, but it was just easier not to deal with that on top of everything else. It's a lapse that will come back to bite them both.

I also don't blame Sam for not telling Dean that things have gotten as bad as they have considering everything that's happening. The first thing that Sam heard upon waking form his coma was how much pressure Dean was under and that Sam's problem would be just one more thing to pile on an already overflowing plate. Sam did not want to become another burden on Dean so he did the only thing he could do - try to manage as much as he could on his own. He didn't lie and tell Dean that he was perfectly fine, but he definitely was downplaying what he was going through. He had a fix that seemed to work so he was able to keep his crazy in check. Until that fix didn't work. So now he's starting to flounder and has reached the end of his rope. Should he have been more up front with what he was going through? Absolutely? But just as it's understandable why Dean wasn't more proactive on this issue, it's equally understandable why Sam didn't reveal more. He was trying to protect Dean, and didn't want Dean angsting over something that he likely couldn't do anything about.

What happened is entirely understandable when you've got these two individuals - one who tries to hide or downplay his suffering and another who tends to develop tunnel vision when overwhelmed. Without Bobby, who managed to look out for both their well-beings and could act as an intermediary when they weren't communicating well, it was easy to let this get to the crisis point.

[SoCal]

So Dean is turning a blind eye to Sam's suffering?? Come on. He's tried to help Sam in several different ways. Either it hasn't worked or else Sam has told him that he is handling it.

They both have made mistakes regarding each other's problems. But Dean tried like mad to get Sam to stay away from Ruby and the demon blood and Sam ignored him because he liked the way it made him feel: stronger and more powerful and no matter how Dean tried to make him see that Ruby was using him and messing with his mind, Sam refused to follow Dean's advice and instead, chose Ruby.

I think Dean is just as capable as Sam at juggling a few balls at the same time. He's hunting as well as keeping track of the Leviathins and trying to watch Sam. Tunnel vision? I don't think so.

Sam has always kept things from Dean and even admitted that his running away never made things better.

Dean HAD to restore Sam's soul. Sam was not only killing evil things while soulless, we saw that he didn't care if innocents got in his way....he killed them, too. I think Dean saw that as unacceptable. Sam did too, once he got his fractured soul back. Death put up that wall, and it was doing pretty well, although not perfect, until stupid Castiel, who became something pretty awful himself, tore it down, leaving Sam without any defences.

I hope Sam can be "fixed." And if there's anyone who can help, it's Dean.

[Mistermoonlight]

There's a brand new trailer for the episode up here: insidetv.ew.com/2012/03/21/supernatural-misha-collins-return-clip/

[AntiArbitrator]

That trailer is very revealing. A lot of times the trailers are misleading but this one seems straightforward. We have a thread on here where we "say something that you can't say to their face" and that's pretty much what Dean is doing. In this circumstance he can say how he really feels and get it off his chest. The healer can give objective feedback without feeling defensive. I have no problem with what Dean said.

[SoCal]

That trailer sounds like a good one to watch. Unfortunately, I'm blocked from viewing these at work so will have to wait until I get home tonight.

Can hardly wait for Friday. Just from the little I've seen, it looks like a good episode. I hope it's more of Dean and Sam and LESS of Castiel. I think his character has run well beyond his allotted lifespan.

[ravanne]

The new sneak peak was very interesting. I liked seeing Dean have a chance to get his anger at what Castiel did to Sam off his chest (and made it pretty clear that instant forgiveness is not going to happen). The only reason that Dean is able to be that honest is because this isn't really Castiel he's dealing with. It's the physical form that Castiel used, and some of the angel mojo, but the mind and personality seem to be gone. At least at this point.

I feel badly for Dean because his instinct is go go after the one who hurt his brother and now that being is probably beyond his reach. Getting revenge just isn't going to happen, it seems. So the best Dean can do is try to use whatever's left of Castiel to help Sam. Maybe then, he might be able to start forgiving Castiel in an abstract sense (since holding on to anger at that point would be pretty useless), but unless Castiel suddenly gets all of its memories back, there isn't going to be a nice, clean resolution to this.