The Help by Kathryn Stockett

[avp60685]

Looks like I am here by myself so that gives me time to post my thoughts on chapters 1 and 2 before I get busy today:

Chapter 1:
I loved the introduction to Aibileen, Mae Mobley and Skeeter in this chapter. The relationship that Aibileen has with Mae Mobley reminds me of my special relationship with a girl who is about 12 and I have known her since she was 5 years old. Anyways I am digressing so let me get back on task. Miss Leefolt is definately someone who wants to do whatever Miss Hilly says is the right thing to do. I personally think that Miss Leefolt isn't comfortable enough on her own so she just follows along with whatever else is going on. For instance I don't think the issue with Aiblileen using the guest bathroom is that big of a deal but yet Hilly feels uncomfortable about it and that is why she tells Elizabeth/Leefolt to create a bathroom outdoors for "the help."

I would like to point out that as a young white woman who has grown up in the South (I know Maryland has been called a Yankee state but trust me there was slavery here, it only followed the Union because it is so close to Washington D.C. in my opinion) I have heard about segregation from my mother. This is sickening about how we could do this to a set of people just because of the color of their skin. Heck! It doesn't matter what color we are as as long as we focus on what is really important right? I mean I go to practically all black church and same was true when I graduated from High School so color don't matter to me.

I honestly think that Skeeter reminds me of me in some ways when she says "Do you ever wish you could...change things?" she asks. And that is exactly how I feel, I wish I could have changed things and you know what, even though I was born in the 1980's I still see glimpses of segregation especially in the deeper part of the South where my mom's family is from. And sometimes I see it here in Maryland, someone will go try to get past me in the grocery store and say "Excuse me" and when I comment "Oh, I am so sorry about that" so I move out of the way and as they walk past me they give me a funny look and proceed as if I hadn't say anything.


Chapter 2 was a semi good chapter and I like Aibileen's feisty attitude in this chapter like when she tells Celia about Minny needing work. Mae Mobley is obviously a very lonely little girl and even though she has Aibileen she still wants someone to spend time with her instead of being caught up in their own little world (I am meaning her mother in this case). This chapter moved a quicker pace from the previous chapter so it shows how things are moving ahead. My thoughts on this chapter is that Elizabeth/Leefolt is so wrapped up in the pettiness of what society says is the norm that she has forgotten what is really important. I think because of this Mae Mobley is going to be copying her mother's example if she isn't careful when she gets old enough. Miss Elizabeth/Leefolt is a very demanding person and seems to want things right now so that things can run smoothly for her.

I want to point out one thing, I have been a maid of sorts but here's the funny part in a crazy thing, it was for black women. I have done their vacuuming, laundry, sweeping, empty and filling up a dishwasher, making up their beds and few other tasks. I think this experience has given me some perspective of what 'the help' went through.


Overall this was a really great set of two chapters with some great characters and I look forward to what you all have to say about them.

[AntiArbitrator]

Please join us for a synchro read and discussion of The Help, a book written by Kathryn Stockett. The book is a best seller about three women, a Caucasian writer and two African-American maids, in Jackson, Mississippi in the 1960s.

We will discuss chapters 1 and 2 starting at 7 PM EDT tonight.

Characters introduced in first two chapters in order of appearance:
Aibileen Clark - A maid and nanny
Mae Mobley Leefolt - Toddler under the care of Aibileen
Elizabeth Leefolt - Employer of Aibileen
Hilly Holbrook - President of Junior League and Elizabeth's friend
Miss Walter - Hilly's mother
Eugenia "Skeeter" Phelan - Recent college graduate and writer, friend of Elizabeth and Hilly
Minny Jackson - Miss Walter's maid and Aibileen's friend
Raleigh Leefolt - Husband of Elizabeth
Celia Foote - New resident of the area
[Treelore - son of Aibileen]

[Mistermoonlight]

That's 7pm Eastern Daylight Time, right?

Thanks for making the thread, Anti, and as always, could we get some Tweets out and Chloe, some FaceBook mentions as well, ahead of time? I'll handle the posts on the main thread.

It might be good to look up the Tweet addresses of some groups interested or associated with the book, I'm thinking.

[Watchtower]

Sure. I'll get right on that.

[AntiArbitrator]

Aug 17, 2012 15:57:08 GMT -5 Mistermoonlight said:

That's 7pm Eastern Daylight Time, right?

Thanks for making the thread, Anti, and as always, could we get some Tweets out and Chloe, some FaceBook mentions as well, ahead of time? I'll handle the posts on the main thread.

It might be good to look up the Tweet addresses of some groups interested or associated with the book, I'm thinking.

EDT, EDT, EDT; one day I will remember how to write that. Thank you. The Facebook announcement posted to Twitter. But I will check to see if the thread link shows up on Twitter.

[AntiArbitrator]

I posted to Kathryn Stockett and to The Help Movie, but still trying to find a Twitter link to friends of the book.

[Mistermoonlight]

Looking forward to our discussion.

Some background on me as a contributor:

I have always lived in the South. I was born in Texas, then when I was two we moved back to south Alabama. Since then I have lived in south Mississipi and south Louiasiana. Now I am back in south Alabama.

My great great grandfather fought for the Confederate side in the Civil War. He survived, and afterwards married a woman from Sand Mountain Alabama. They built a log cabin and started a life not far from where I am today.

Her brother Richard fought for the North in the Civil War, and they must have had a close relationship, because he came down and lived with them after it was over. He lived with them the rest of his life.

I've often wondered what it was like in that household, with a husband that fought for the South and a brother that fought for the North in that horrible war. I've not done enough research. I'd like to think that they were the new model for how our nation would knit together their differences and survive.

The only thing I know for sure from the local records is that my great great grandmother once got in trouble for accusing another woman of having a 'want of chastity.' That was a case she lost, according to local court records.

There was far to go in bringing about the freedoms that war was fought over.

I myself will admit to feeling a sense of calling when I hear the song 'Dixie,' but it is a feeling for the land and it's history more than anything else.

I grew up in the era in which this book is set, and saw the great events of civil rights history as a child. I did not understand them then, but like all children knew who loved me, black and white alike.

I'm looking forward to contributing to this discussion and sharing what I saw and learned, and looking forward even more to learning through our discussion.

[AntiArbitrator]

A little about me. I am African American and have lived in Maryland my entire life. My grandparents were from Raleigh, North Carolina and moved here when my mother was in elementary school. I live in a large metropolitan area and have met people from the more rural areas as well as people from all along the East Coast.

During the 60s, I walked three blocks to watch the Troops who were stationed at Park Circle to keep peace during the riots. I was amazed at the violence. I do not recall any Caucasians at my schools so I did not have any as friends until I went to college.

I am excited to discuss the story with everyone.

[gilmorefanalways]

How is everyone enjoying the help?

[AntiArbitrator]

I have enjoyed The Help from the first page.

Chapter one introduced Aibileen, an African American maid in Mississippi in the 1960s, whose point of view is given in the first person. She speaks in a patois common to rural areas. She begins her story by describing Mae Mobley, a White child who Aibileen takes care of. Mae Mobley is described as an unhappy baby who is starved for attention. Aibileen gives the baby the love and attention her mother denies her. Her mother, Miss Leefolt, considers the child to be in the way most of the time and holds Aibileen responsible for keeping her out of the way.

Miss Leefolt is described as all-around skinny. I interpret this description to show that skinny people are stingy with affection and consideration for others, even their children. By comparing Miss Leefolt's face to a red devil on a candy box, I know Aibileen does not trust her and considers her to be evil. Her two-year old has a bald spot that is probably caused by Miss Leefolt’s neglect.

Fat people are described as full of love and that is why babies hold onto them. Aibileen is happy to give the baby love and attention although she is responsible for cooking, cleaning, polishing, ironing and anything else the mistress wants. She loves so fully that when Treelore, Aibileen’s son, died, she was unable to function for three months.

[gilmorefanalways]

I like the book so far seems like its going to be an interesting story.

[Mistermoonlight]

First impression after reading chapter one and two is that Stockett is off in the dialect. Hers is much more modern than it should be.

As I remember it the whole 'you be' or 'I be' stuff didn't come along until the 1970s, although I could easily be wrong. Because of the times and the dangers involved at those times, African Americans talked differently amongst themselves than when they were in the presence of white folks.

And I'm disappointed to see that the southern dialect of the white folks in the story is almost totally neglected. I think that puts the white folks on an unfair pedastal linguistically, although if it is a literary contrivance for purpose of story I may understand what she's trying to achieve further down the line.

Kathryn Stockett was born in 1969, well after all this stuff was over, so I'll forgive her some missteps in trying to create something that has an important message.

[Mistermoonlight]

Aug 17, 2012 18:22:29 GMT -5 AntiArbitrator said:

I have enjoyed The Help from the first page.

Chapter one introduced Aibileen, an African American maid in Mississippi in the 1960s, whose point of view is given in the first person. She speaks in a patois common to rural areas. She begins her story by describing Mae Mobley, a White child who Aibileen takes care of. Mae Mobley is described as an unhappy baby who is starved for attention. Aibileen gives the baby the love and attention her mother denies her. Her mother, Miss Leefolt, considers the child to be in the way most of the time and holds Aibileen responsible for keeping her out of the way.

Miss Leefolt is described as all-around skinny. I interpret this description to show that skinny people are stingy with affection and consideration for others, even their children. By comparing Miss Leefolt's face to a red devil on a candy box, I know Aibileen does not trust her and considers her to be evil. Her two-year old has a bald spot that is probably caused by Miss Leefolt’s neglect.

Fat people are described as full of love and that is why babies hold onto them. Aibileen is happy to give the baby love and attention although she is responsible for cooking, cleaning, polishing, ironing and anything else the mistress wants. She loves so fully that when Treelore, Aibileen’s son, died, she was unable to function for three months.

Wow, that is really good. I love that. You are so right.

[gilmorefanalways]

However I do not like the racism in the story but I guess this is what life was like back then

[gilmorefanalways]

And I suppose it will play an important role in the book.

[AntiArbitrator]

Yes, racism was wide-spread in the 60s. People are uncomfortable with talking about it, and 60 agencies turned down the opportunity to publish the book. I admire Mrs. Stockett's endurance in getting the book published.

[Mistermoonlight]

Between Anti and I you're lucky enough to have a couple of people who can tell you exactly what it was like, although from different histories and viewpoints.

[Mistermoonlight]

When I was a child, even though we were far from middle class at the time we had 'housekeepers' most of whom were black who took care of us as children. The most memorable ones for me were one who was black and one who was white. And now this book has got me to wondering how different things were for the one who was white.

Can you imagine anything more demeaning than someone building a separate bathroom for you to use because you were of another race?

I know in our instance everyone in the family, including our housekeepers used the same bathroom. Heck, we only had one.

Yet I can also remember once going to my local theater to watch a movie. I wanted to go up to the balcony, but I was told I couldn't because it was 'blacks only.' And I can remember when businesses had separate entrances and bathroom facilities for African Americans as well. Even water fountains. How dehumanizing is that? And only for the purpose of whites needing to feel like they were one-up on others?

Yet it was anchored in our culture in the South. You could not escape it.

[AntiArbitrator]

I am very interested in MisterMoonlight's perspective. I was taught bias by the grandparents who talked about their experiences in the South. I am also interested in GilmoreFan's perspective on what she reads compared to what the history books are saying.

---

Miss Leefolt’s friends were introduced as an overweight woman who disrespects her mother, a matron who is getting palsy, and a white woman who greets the coloreds. Each of these characteristics is important to understanding the characters.

Miss Hilly spoke negatively about Celia Foote wanting to help out at the Jackson League Benefit so Miss Leefolt agreed with her. Miss Hilly looks down on poor whites in addition to treating the coloreds as inferior. She demonstrates a need to be in control and takes charge of the conversation even though she is not the hostess. The hostess, Miss Leefolt, was submissive to Miss Hilly in her own home. That aggressive-submissive relationship was probably established when they were schoolgirls.

Miss Skeeter was the only one who voiced disagreement. Miss Hilly is also the one who insisted that the help should use a different bathroom than the white people. Miss Skeeter quipped about it and Miss Hilly threatened her position as an editor of the League.

When the other women go outside, Miss Skeeter asked Aibileen about Constantine and that makes her nervous. Miss Skeeter then makes Aibileen more nervous by asking her “Do you ever wish you could…change things?”

Right then, I know Miss Skeeter is not going to bow to the will of her friends and that she does not think like them.

When my peers would speak negatively about white people as if they were all the same, my parents (not grandparents) would explain to us that slaves did not free themselves. It took the blood and heartache of white people to set that in motion. So I understand it takes someone like Miss Skeeter to "change things".

[AntiArbitrator]

MisterMoonlight's post has prompted me to share some of my experiences.
The movie theaters were the same here. We had to sit in the balcony but I was too young to understand.

When we would go to a downtown department store (which was considered upscale), we were not allowed to try on clothes prior to purchase, and we could not use the restrooms.


When I participated in a work-study program when I was a teenager, a woman gasped when I drank from a water fountain in the building. I asked her if something was wrong with the water and she turned beet red and scurried away. I was clueless until an African-American elevator operator explained they were not allowed to use the same facilities as the whites. I told him that was illegal and he got nervous. I told my parents and they reported the incident to the EEOC. Within a week, EEOC representatives swarmed the company, which employed 10,000 people. Although they interviewed me, they never let it be known that I was involved in their being there.

[Mistermoonlight]

Thank you for bringing me back to the story, Anti.

I think the character who resonates for me most in Minnie. who speaks her own mind, often to her detriment, and is a wonderful cook. I feel the closest to her. And I certainly hope the author is not setting her up to have something horrible happen to her.

I have tried to think about the worst bosses I have ever had, and none has treated me as less than human: told me I couldn't use the same bathrooms or water fountains, etc . . . So, even as much as I can imagine, I've never had to feel that.

And so far, I think that is the essence I'm getting from these first two chapters. That this is what exists, and what we are seeing is Aibeleene's attempts to protect her own people from the injustices endemic in this society she lives in.

I fear that down the line she will have to make difficult choices.

What the hell am I saying?

She has to make them every day.

[AntiArbitrator]

Yes, let's talk about Minny (though I prefer MisterMoonlight's spelling ). She is the one with the smart mouth and the "gift of gab". I noticed how people wanted to be near her on the bus so she could keep them entertained.

Aibileen told Minny Miss Hilly was talking about her and Minny gets mad and threatens that if Miss Hilly says that to her, she’ll get a piece of Minny. That certainly sounded like trouble brewing.

Minny called Aibileen to tell her Miss Hilly lied and told people Minny had stolen a candelabra. Minny said she did something bad and “I ain’t telling nobody about that pie.” I shudder to think what that meant. I'm sure people who saw the movie know what it means, but I want to wait until I read it. I like the way Mrs. Stockett gives hints to whet our appetite.

Something happened in chapter 2 that I understand, but it still did not set well with me. It's the incident where Mae Mobley snatched the phone cord because her mother was ignoring her. Miss Leefolt smacked her hard on the leg. When Aibileen tried to console her, Mae Mobley smacked her on the ear. Aibileen was mad at the mother, but not the child. It seemed that it was the norm for the maid to accept whatever happened. When the child calmed down, I doubt there was any conversation explaining to her that she should not strike Aibileen.

Am I going into too much detail? This is a learning experience for me.

[Mistermoonlight]

Aug 17, 2012 19:20:05 GMT -5 AntiArbitrator said:

Yes, let's talk about Minny (though I prefer MisterMoonlight's spelling ). She is the one with the smart mouth and the "gift of gab". I noticed how people wanted to be near her on the bus so she could keep them entertained.

Aibileen told Minny Miss Hilly was talking about her and Minny gets mad and threatens that if Miss Hilly says that to her, she’ll get a piece of Minny. That certainly sounded like trouble brewing.

Minny called Aibileen to tell her Miss Hilly lied and told people Minny had stolen a candelabra. Minny said she did something bad and “I ain’t telling nobody about that pie.” I shudder to think what that meant. I'm sure people who saw the movie know what it means, but I want to wait until I read it. I like the way Mrs. Stockett gives hints to whet our appetite.

Something happened in chapter 2 that I understand, but it still did not set well with me. It's the incident where Mae Mobley snatched the phone cord because her mother was ignoring her. Miss Leefolt smacked her hard on the leg. When Aibileen tried to console her, Mae Mobley smacked her on the ear. Aibileen was mad at the mother, but not the child. It seemed that it was the norm for the maid to accept whatever happened. When the child calmed down, I doubt there was any conversation explaining to her that she should not strike Aibileen.

Am I going into too much detail? This is a learning experience for me.

Hell no. This is a safe atmosphere, You can say anything you think here, even if you later decide it's wrong. All viewpoints are valid, just like in a literature workshop.

You have the freedom (and the duty from time to time) to be wrong. That particular thing you say may inspire you or someone else to add something that is memorable and important. That's how it works. So, gloves off.

Do you think what we're seeing in that scene is a shortcut as to how racial intolerence proceeds from generation to generation, or simply a child acting like a child?

[AntiArbitrator]

My initial reaction is that it was an upset child striking out. Her mother saw her strike Aibileen and told both of them to get out of the room. Racism is passed from generation to generation when no one acts as if there was anything wrong with the child striking her nanny.

[Mistermoonlight]

That's so true. I think one of the things we're seeing here is the self-absorption of white folks to the exclusion of whatever moral truths might be easily visible to others.

It serves to draw the net even tighter.

Which, in terms of narrative tension is good.

Not necessarily so good for us as a people.

[AntiArbitrator]

I agree, and there is a wealth of information about the characters in those first 2 chapters that lays the groundwork for however they respond later in the story. For instance, until Aibileen was in her home, I was unaware that she does not have enough money to feed and clothe herself properly. But she would never burden Miss Leefolt with that information or ask for a raise.

[Mistermoonlight]

I am torn between thinking that this shows us a lot of strength of her character (she let go of her relations with men when she realized that she was attracted to the wrong ones) or if it shows us her fear.

Or possibly both?

These are complex characters.

[AntiArbitrator]

Aug 17, 2012 21:27:35 GMT -5 Mistermoonlight said:

I am torn between thinking that this shows us a lot of strength of her character (she let go of her relations with men when she realized that she was attracted to the wrong ones) or if it shows us her fear.

Or possibly both?

These are complex characters.

I must quote you because your question intrigues me and although I am very sleepy, I want to respond to it without confusing you.

You make a very good point. They are much more complex characters than they might appear if we look at them superficially. You raise a very interesting question about what this shows. I was thinking it showed pride, but after reading the point you brought out, I no longer think so. She was described as having a hardening or bitterness (I'll verify the term tomorrow) following the death of her son. I think she was subservient prior to that tragedy and only now is she beginning to feel resentment about the way white people treat her. The resentment has not reached a point that she can overcome the fear she has lived with all of her life. She does not look white people in the eye nor is she comfortable even talking with them. And she would fear Miss Leefolt's reaction if she divulged she needed help. She was fearful of telling Minny what Miss Hilly said about her. She has demonstrated she suffers fear in many aspects of her life.

She does have strength of character, but now, thanks to you, I think the overriding impetus is fear.

Edit: The phrase that describes Aibileen's change in attitude -
“I put the iron down real slow, feel that bitter seed grow in my chest, the one planted after Treelore died.”

As we know, when a seed has been planted, it will lie dormant until the necessary ingredients are fed to it. The statement was made when Miss Leefolt pushed the issue of Aibileen using the bathroom that was built for the help. That is the catalyst that will feed the seed of bitterness.

[Mistermoonlight]

So, she's dealing with anger as well as fear, it seems. Good analysis!

It also seems to me that the bonds these women are dealing with are similar to those of slavery, different only in that you can't physically see them.

[AntiArbitrator]

Thank you. Are we continuing tonight?

Are waiting to read more chapters? (I'm willing to bet both you and I have read past chapter 2.)