Supernatural 8.1- DISCUSSION and POLL

[AntiArbitrator]

We Need to Talk About Kevin
PREMIERE NEW
S08, E01
When Dean emerges from purgatory, his reunion with Sam isn't what he expected; Kevin escapes from Crowley's grasp.

[SoCal]

I am so jealous of you east coast Supernatural fans. You only have one more hour to wait for relief. I have to wait for 4 more endless hours.
Hope the debates don't screw up the premiere!!

[AntiArbitrator]

It was great. I'll talk about it tomorrow. No spoilers for you.

[SoCal]

Oh, I am so looking forward to 9:00 p.m. Still only 7:30 out here.....1 1/2 hours to go................

[Aeryn]

I watched for eleven minutes, then I got bored.

I taped it, so I'll watch the rest tomorrow.

[AntiArbitrator]

Oct 3, 2012 23:22:21 GMT -5 Aeryn said:

I watched for eleven minutes, then I got bored.

I taped it, so I'll watch the rest tomorrow.

Say it's not so. Perhaps you were tired, but let us know tomorrow if you feel differently. I have watched it twice, and it was good.

[lala2]

I somewhat agree w/Aeryn. I wasn't outright bored, but I wasn't riveted either. I gave it a "5." It wasn't horrible, but it also wasn't the best. It was sort of slow. I did flip my station a couple of times to General Hospital and forgot to turn back, so I missed the beginnings of a few scenes.

The arc w/Sam is particularly troubling b/c it is so OOC that it kind of took me out of the show. Nothing JC has done w/Sam - even in this first episode - makes any sense at all. It's not at all how Sam would behave, IMO.

Kevin was much more likeable to me than he was last year. Benny was interesting and HOT.

Jared's hair is simply gorgeous! I love the length, and it was not weighed down in gel.

Dean clearly has issues from Purgatory.

I didn't tape it so I can re-watch. It was an okay episode.

[lemongrover]

Well, I didn't hate the episode, but I certainly didn't love it. It was very slow. Sam was out of character, but they talked about it which was odd. Dean was different. I felt like Sam and Dean got back together too quickly. It was almost like they had just spent a couple days apart and didn't have any big concerns, yet, they did, but it was awkward and off. I don't know. It's clearly an episode I think you can miss without being lost for the whole season or having any "I cannot believe that just happened." For the most part, if it had been anything but a season premiere it would be getting zero attention. You had to be completely unspoiled and haven't watched any promos to have any type of surprise what so ever. The only thing you didn't know about the episode was the shady figure standing outside of Amelia's house. And that's probably Bobby returning. (Not that I know anything, but unless it's something that explains why Sam is acting so out of character, it isn't a major concern for me)

As for the new characters

Benny: He was alright, but I'm not going to make any judgments yet.

Amelia: She is an unprofessional, unlikable bitch. She is really starting off on the wrong bitchy foot. I mean, her scene with Sam was so unrealistic because she that much of a bitch. I know that I've seen that a poster did like her because she put Sam in his place, but even that poster contradicted it by saying that Carver starts his female characters as being uber bitchy. So, they have a lot of ground to cover. But so far, there isn't any chemistry or charm between Sam and Amelia's relationship. I know it's early to say that, but they aren't making it easy to at least be open to this story line.

As for the returning characters:

Kevin: He's no longer Advance Placement Kevin. He's come a long way. I love how he kept tricking Crowley, but I hate how they had to have Sam completely ignore him for a year to do so.

Castiel: He was mention a lot. They want him on our minds and something happened between him and Dean. So, he got a story for next week.

Crowley: Crowley, Crowley, Crowley, you can't charm your way into everyone's mind. I'm glad Crowley was foiled and I love how calm he was when he killed Kevin's girlfriend. He's a major player again. So, that's a plus.

Dean: Dean is keeping a lot of secrets but his feelings about Sam leaving hunting aren't some of them. I like that Dean has a story this season. And Dean is acting pretty badass, but I'm not sure I'm going to like the new Dean forever. I liked Dean for the most part just the way he was before. I know that I've had my problems with Dean since the fifth season. But I'm not sure if an entire new Dean is the solution especially a Dean as shady and gun-ho as this one.

Sam: Sammy, my chuck, what have they done to you? Soap Opera city and boredom. The dog scene was overdone. The dialogue was terrible, but the actors were pretending Supernatural was Soapnatural. That scene belonged on the cutting room floor. I really don't understand. But Amelia isn't anything impressive and she a bit of a bully, so it was a terrible way of bringing these two characters together. I'm already hoping that Sam finds someone else.

The acting was all over the place tonight. I think Jensen is truly excited about the season. He really going for it. But Dean felt completely different at times, so I'm worried that he might overdo it. He isn't adding the subtly like he did the sixth season where Dean was different, but still Dean. Here, I felt like Dean was Dean, but completely changed and different. It will be interesting to see it play out. I'm not going to make any judgments on Benny just yet.

Jared, on the other hand, was elsewhere. There is a devoid of excitement from him in this episode and you can tell. Jared has Sam's conflict, guilt, and upset down. That was perfect. But Sam is different. You can see that the year impacted him, but I don't think you can buy that Sam would just leave hunting. They didn't sell that a lot. They defended it, but as for making it believable, not a chance. So, Sam mannerisms were the same as Sam, he sounded like Sam, just what he was saying and what he did was not Sam. That's a writing issue. And to top it off, the Soap Opera scene with the dog was laughable. I'm sorry, but not only was the dialogue terrible and unrealistic, but there was no way you could save it. The actress who plays Amelia didn't even try to make Amelia believable or likable. I get the lines where terrible, but she was cold and heartless.

I don't know, but I think part of the reason why the acting felt off to me was because of how much we're missing and how much has been forced. Here's the show's writing is clearly weighing it down.

I'm going to stop here for now, so I can think about it some more. Because the episode did open a lot of doors and has a lot of possibilities. But I think there are some real issues forming for the show if they don't twist it around and make it part of the plot.

[deadbeat]

I gave it a 6 only because even the worst Supernatural episodes are better than just about anything else out there.

Sam was absolutely out of character. I believe his apology to Kevin was something like "I'm sorry, I had to clear my head." Yep, the writers have decided that they want every fan to hate Sam now, not just the few that already do.

I like that Dean seemed to "like" purgatory. I don't like that Castiel didn't come out with them and that Dean sounds like he basically wrote him off. I'm sure something bad happened there, but I am not really interested in seeing much of it.

I watch for the brothers and right now it looks like we are heading for bonding with Dean, Castiel, and Benny... and Sam and a dog. Not my idea of a good time. I did like Kevin, but after Sam laid that "clear my head" line on him and they let his girlfriend just die... I am just not in a good place right now.

[jensenRick]

No doubt- some parts of this were painful to watch, as in- they sure love ripping my heart to bits. But that is what makes great drama, and this was a fantastic episode. If they keep up this level, this might be the best season of SPN yet.
Yeah for season Gr8!

[evilsquirre1]

I'm not normally a Sam girl but I don't hate Sam so I don't like to see him portrayed this way. Seriously he didn't even look for Dean? Another problem for me were all the flashbacks. Because I saw the dog, and because Dean is a alive now I lose any tension from the flashbacks I already know the outcome. I don't like that Vet at all so if she is Sam's girl he has serious issues. Knowing his tastes I might test her will the silver knife, but she was unpleasant dare I say bitch.

Here's what I did like, Kevin's haircut is excellent. ;D I also very much like Kevin, he is interesting and the tricks he knows are awesome. Plus the second god rock closing hell gates forever is interesting. I loved Dean as a super hunter, Purgatory made him even better then he was before. My biggest issue with Season six was they wussed out Dean's hunting skills. I also like the strange relationship between Bennie and Dean. Is Bennie a bad guy or an animal only eating vampire? I like not knowing what happened to Cas. Can an angel really be killed in Purgatory? Sam didn't get a clear answer from Dean. Of course Sam didn't care because apparently the bitchy Vet has brain control of Sam. That's the only way to explain Season eight Sammy.

[SoCal]

I thought it was great. I gave it a 10.

I like the tension between Dean and Sam. It should make for some exciting episodes further on in the season.

Dean had that simmering "I'm going to kill you.....slowly" expression which looked incredibly hot! But I hope he is able to control his temper.

Sam looked all at sea. The guilt he is feeling now after realizing that Dean didn't die and was going through "hell" in Purgatory for a year and he didn't even look for him but went out to live his own version of the "apple pie life" is going to weigh heavily upon him.

Glad to see that Kevin is more tough and not just a nerdy college wanna-be.

Crowley ..... well, what can you say about Crowley. He's always as good as it gets. And his killing Kevin's girlfriend shows that he's truly evil.

Benny hasn't been fully explored, of course. I'm looking forward to seeing just what awful things he and Dean did in Purgatory that has them glued at the hip.

Be careful Dean. Making deals with vampired could come back to bite you!

Thank you Jeremy for giving us back the Supernatural of seasons 1-3. Dark, dramatic, full of surprises, glints of humor and clever writing.

Let the season roll!!

[Aeryn]

Oct 3, 2012 23:56:20 GMT -5 lala2 said:

I somewhat agree w/Aeryn. I wasn't outright bored, but I wasn't riveted either. I gave it a "5." It wasn't horrible, but it also wasn't the best. It was sort of slow. I did flip my station a couple of times to General Hospital and forgot to turn back, so I missed the beginnings of a few scenes.

The arc w/Sam is particularly troubling b/c it is so OOC that it kind of took me out of the show. Nothing JC has done w/Sam - even in this first episode - makes any sense at all. It's not at all how Sam would behave, IMO.

Kevin was much more likeable to me than he was last year. Benny was interesting and HOT.

Jared's hair is simply gorgeous! I love the length, and it was not weighed down in gel.

Dean clearly has issues from Purgatory.

I didn't tape it so I can re-watch. It was an okay episode.

I watched the rest of it this morning, and I was even more bored than I was last night.

Sam and Dean's reunion felt uncomfortable and awkward. And seriously, I didn't feel any brotherly connection between them. Not at all. The rest of the episode bored me beyond words. It was a chore to sit still longer than five minutes.

For the first time since I've been watching this show, I felt like I was observing "actors" reading lines. Period.

There is no way a ninth season will happen. This show has run it's course.

Jared's hair looked great. That's the only positive for me.

[jensenRick]

Holy shit, I agree with everything SoCal said. The apocalypse is back on! LOL

[jensenRick]

EvilSquirrel, I'm the biggest Sam fan around (IMHO) so while it was painful- I do understand where Sam is coming from. He thought Dean was dead, for Dean that means Heaven now. It would be wrong to pull him back from that.
Plus I think Sam needed a year off. After all he's been thru? It seems Sam has gotten something things worked out now that he hadn't before, he's not so aimless as seasons past, and he's found his voice again. That I'm grateful for, so I can't be mad.

As for the vet, I'm sure an animal hospital gets stuff like this all the time, where someone comes in and says "I broke him, you fix him, I'm leaving"- so I totally get where she is coming from. These places aren't generally run by millionaires- if an animal with serious injuries (like this one) is going to be healed, someone has to take responsibility, someone has to pay. If someone looks to shirk their responsibilities, you have to be blunt with them.

Not sure what you mean about Dean- you hated him as a super hunter? I think there is a typo here or something.
I'm loving Benny too! He's awesome! Can't wait to read the first Dean/Benny slash fic. You know the fans have already started cranking them out since last night. LMAO!

[evilsquirre1]

Oct 3, 2012 23:56:20 GMT -5 lala2 said:

I somewhat agree w/Aeryn. I wasn't outright bored, but I wasn't riveted either. I gave it a "5." It wasn't horrible, but it also wasn't the best. It was sort of slow. I did flip my station a couple of times to General Hospital and forgot to turn back, so I missed the beginnings of a few scenes.

The arc w/Sam is particularly troubling b/c it is so OOC that it kind of took me out of the show. Nothing JC has done w/Sam - even in this first episode - makes any sense at all. It's not at all how Sam would behave, IMO.

Kevin was much more likeable to me than he was last year. Benny was interesting and HOT.

Jared's hair is simply gorgeous! I love the length, and it was not weighed down in gel.

Dean clearly has issues from Purgatory.

I didn't tape it so I can re-watch. It was an okay episode.

Mostly I agree with you. But I scored it a 7 so I liked it a bit more then you did. The biggest thing we part ways on is Jared's hair. It's too long and I hate the weird thing it's doing in the back. It reminds me of Marlo Thomas 1970s flip hairstyle on the old TV series 'That girl.' I just enjoy Crowley's crack about his sideburns. I also notice a huge change between Sera and the new show runner dude. This season is more gritty and I like that.

[Aeryn]

Oct 4, 2012 9:59:41 GMT -5 evilsquirre1 said:

Oct 3, 2012 23:56:20 GMT -5 lala2 said:

I somewhat agree w/Aeryn. I wasn't outright bored, but I wasn't riveted either. I gave it a "5." It wasn't horrible, but it also wasn't the best. It was sort of slow. I did flip my station a couple of times to General Hospital and forgot to turn back, so I missed the beginnings of a few scenes.

The arc w/Sam is particularly troubling b/c it is so OOC that it kind of took me out of the show. Nothing JC has done w/Sam - even in this first episode - makes any sense at all. It's not at all how Sam would behave, IMO.

Kevin was much more likeable to me than he was last year. Benny was interesting and HOT.

Jared's hair is simply gorgeous! I love the length, and it was not weighed down in gel.

Dean clearly has issues from Purgatory.

I didn't tape it so I can re-watch. It was an okay episode.

Mostly I agree with you. But I scored it a 7 so I liked it a bit more then you did. The biggest thing we part ways on is Jared's hair. It's too long and I hate the weird thing it's doing in the back. It reminds me of Marlo Thomas 1970s flip hairstyle on the old TV series 'That girl.' I just enjoy Crowley's crack about his sideburns. I also notice a huge change between Sera and the new show runner dude. This season is more gritty and I like that.

You only scored it a 7 because you were drinking wine.

[evilsquirre1]

I got a goofy angel question. As we know the beginning of each episode where they show what happened before impacts the current episode. So while I was watching I noticed they showed the scene from from point of no return. where Dean uses the angel warding blood thingey to send Castiel off. So my question is couldn't Dean just use the angel warding symbol to transport Cas out of Purgatory?

[Aeryn]

I don't think so. Purgatory was built to house the Leviathans (and other things), so I'm guessing that it would be far more difficult to transport Cas away from it.

[SoCal]

Interesting question, though.

[ezpzy]

Oct 4, 2012 8:29:52 GMT -5 SoCal said:

I thought it was great. I gave it a 10.

I like the tension between Dean and Sam. It should make for some exciting episodes further on in the season.

Dean had that simmering "I'm going to kill you.....slowly" expression which looked incredibly hot! But I hope he is able to control his temper.

Sam looked all at sea. The guilt he is feeling now after realizing that Dean didn't die and was going through "hell" in Purgatory for a year and he didn't even look for him but went out to live his own version of the "apple pie life" is going to weigh heavily upon him.

Glad to see that Kevin is more tough and not just a nerdy college wanna-be.

Crowley ..... well, what can you say about Crowley. He's always as good as it gets. And his killing Kevin's girlfriend shows that he's truly evil.

Benny hasn't been fully explored, of course. I'm looking forward to seeing just what awful things he and Dean did in Purgatory that has them glued at the hip.

Be careful Dean. Making deals with vampired could come back to bite you!

Thank you Jeremy for giving us back the Supernatural of seasons 1-3. Dark, dramatic, full of surprises, glints of humor and clever writing.

Let the season roll!!

Rather than repeat everything you said, I can say I agree with you, and I gave the episode a 10.

I enjoy the tension between Dean and Sam too because we'll get to see some more of EvilSquirre1's "bitch faces" from Sam. I thought Dean looked disgusted enough to punch Sam, but he held back.

The biggest problem I see is there is absolutely no justification for tossing the phones. The phones have Caller I.D. and voice mail. Sam did not need to respond to any call he wanted to ignore. Kevin took the apology too well, but he's too happy to be free to sweat the small stuff.

When I saw Sam leaving the woman in bed without a word, I thought of the ten times he sneaked out and left Dean asleep. It never went well. Also, Amelia must be the only woman in America who would not have said "Where the hell are you sneaking off to?"

JensenRick, Benny seemed regretful that Dean doesn't want to hang out with him, and the hug was very warm. I bet they are making fanfics about them.

[evilsquirre1]

Oct 4, 2012 13:24:20 GMT -5 ezpzy said:

JensenRick, Benny seemed regretful that Dean doesn't want to hang out with him, and the hug was very warm. I bet they are making fanfics about them.

I bet someone is. I found a fan fict which was slash between Dean and the Impala. I didn't read it but it did make me laugh out loud. He does like to stoke her dashboard.

[SoCal]

Oct 4, 2012 13:24:20 GMT -5 ezpzy said:

Oct 4, 2012 8:29:52 GMT -5 SoCal said:

I thought it was great. I gave it a 10.

I like the tension between Dean and Sam. It should make for some exciting episodes further on in the season.

Dean had that simmering "I'm going to kill you.....slowly" expression which looked incredibly hot! But I hope he is able to control his temper.

Sam looked all at sea. The guilt he is feeling now after realizing that Dean didn't die and was going through "hell" in Purgatory for a year and he didn't even look for him but went out to live his own version of the "apple pie life" is going to weigh heavily upon him.

Glad to see that Kevin is more tough and not just a nerdy college wanna-be.

Crowley ..... well, what can you say about Crowley. He's always as good as it gets. And his killing Kevin's girlfriend shows that he's truly evil.

Benny hasn't been fully explored, of course. I'm looking forward to seeing just what awful things he and Dean did in Purgatory that has them glued at the hip.

Be careful Dean. Making deals with vampired could come back to bite you!

Thank you Jeremy for giving us back the Supernatural of seasons 1-3. Dark, dramatic, full of surprises, glints of humor and clever writing.

Let the season roll!!

Rather than repeat everything you said, I can say I agree with you, and I gave the episode a 10.

I enjoy the tension between Dean and Sam too because we'll get to see some more of EvilSquirre1's "bitch faces" from Sam. I thought Dean looked disgusted enough to punch Sam, but he held back.

The biggest problem I see is there is absolutely no justification for tossing the phones. The phones have Caller I.D. and voice mail. Sam did not need to respond to any call he wanted to ignore. Kevin took the apology too well, but he's too happy to be free to sweat the small stuff.

When I saw Sam leaving the woman in bed without a word, I thought of the ten times he sneaked out and left Dean asleep. It never went well. Also, Amelia must be the only woman in America who would not have said "Where the hell are you sneaking off to?"

JensenRick, Benny seemed regretful that Dean doesn't want to hang out with him, and the hug was very warm. I bet they are making fanfics about them.

I think we might find out in later episodes that Sam told her he had to go to his brother, otherwise, why would he have gone to the "Rufus" hideout?

I thought their reunion needed explaining. How did Dean get Sam to come there? Was Sam aware that it was Dean he was going to meet?

I can hardly wait for the coming episodes to explain everything.

[AntiArbitrator]

Oct 4, 2012 14:39:10 GMT -5 SoCal said:

I think we might find out in later episodes that Sam told her he had to go to his brother, otherwise, why would he have gone to the "Rufus" hideout?

I thought their reunion needed explaining. How did Dean get Sam to come there? Was Sam aware that it was Dean he was going to meet?

I can hardly wait for the coming episodes to explain everything.

I thought about that and decided Sam held onto a special personal phone that Dean knew the number to. They can't just leave us hanging like that.

Okay, I understand. Sam told Amelia he had to go see his brother, hopped in bed for a quickie, and rolled out without a good night kiss. Sammy!

[evilsquirre1]

Oct 4, 2012 16:22:57 GMT -5 AntiArbitrator said:

Oct 4, 2012 14:39:10 GMT -5 SoCal said:

I think we might find out in later episodes that Sam told her he had to go to his brother, otherwise, why would he have gone to the "Rufus" hideout?

I thought their reunion needed explaining. How did Dean get Sam to come there? Was Sam aware that it was Dean he was going to meet?

I can hardly wait for the coming episodes to explain everything.

I thought about that and decided Sam held onto a special personal phone that Dean knew the number to. They can't just leave us hanging like that.

Okay, I understand. Sam told Amelia he had to go see his brother, hopped in bed for a quickie, and rolled out without a good night kiss. Sammy!

I still think Amelia is some sort of monster/bitch combo. She implied Sam aimed for the dog. Sam still has mental problems if he is living with a woman that would treat him so bad.

[AntiArbitrator]

I think the dog plot point was solely a shout out to Jared's love for dogs and his charity. The real Sam Winchester would not have taken a seriously injured dog since he had no way to take care of it. Keep it in a motel? How far away was Sam from one of the cabins? Or maybe both he and Amelia saw this as an opportunity to get together. I did not like the way Amelia talked to Sam, period.

[novemberschild]

I gave it an 8 and I really liked the episode. I have watched this one 3 times now.

I thought the whole episode had a harder, grittier edge to it, a different tone, I think this year will be harsher, and more brutal for all the characters. I liked the distinct differences we saw between Sam's year and Dean's time in Purgatory.

I could understand Sam walking away from hunting, everyone he has known or considered part of his family is gone, he had no one to turn to, no leads to follow, nothing. He had been in hunting his whole life and had horrible awful things happen to him. He thought Dean was dead and it had taken his whole family, so I understand why he would leave it and try and start something new.

Dean was harder, edgier, and had guilt hanging all over him , he is hiding something, something that Sam will probably not be happy about. Every time he talked to Sam about Purgatory he would turn away so he didn't have to face Sam. I understand why Dean had to become harder to survive, but I am not sure how I will feel once we find out whatever he is hiding.

I am starting to like Kevin, he is turning into someone who can be a help to the boys. I felt so sorry for him when Crowley killed his girlfriend in front of him. I am guessing it was supposed to reminiscent of Jess dying in front of Sam?

Crowley is evil and crafty as always.
I didn't like Sam's girlfriend, I thought she was a witch to Sam, I am hoping we don't see a lot of her.

i see a quiet menace in Benny, and I don't think I am going to like what his character represents. I do not trust him at all.

[AntiArbitrator]

I forgot to mention that I asked several places what was the significance of the word "safety" in Kevin's comment to his girl when he said you've got a demon in you and you are going to a safety college. Everyone remembered Dean's expression, but only one person gave me an informed response.

"Example, Harvard and Yale are first choices. MIT is a safety school which is a damn good school but to these prodigies, is a last resort. It is ridiculous to us because we could only dream of going to MIT. And they think it is a safety net per se."

[lala2]

Apr 11, 1974 13:16:01 GMT -5 Aeryn said:

I watched the rest of it this morning, and I was even more bored than I was last night.

Sam and Dean's reunion felt uncomfortable and awkward. And seriously, I didn't feel any brotherly connection between them. Not at all. The rest of the episode bored me beyond words. It was a chore to sit still longer than five minutes.

For the first time since I've been watching this show, I felt like I was observing "actors" reading lines. Period.

There is no way a ninth season will happen. This show has run it's course.

Jared's hair looked great. That's the only positive for me.

Haha! Jared's hair was gorgeous - so full and healthy.

You know I have always thought shows have a shelf life, and at one time, I thought Supernatural was going to prove me wrong. I though it would never have a less than stellar sason and then Season 5 came along. Season 6 redeemed the show in my eyes, but then there was the train wreck that was Season 7.

I just don't know. I think the show may be running out of steam and ideas. The story may be coming to its natural conclusion.

[SoCal]

Oct 4, 2012 20:09:39 GMT -5 novemberschild said:

I gave it an 8 and I really liked the episode. I have watched this one 3 times now.

I thought the whole episode had a harder, grittier edge to it, a different tone, I think this year will be harsher, and more brutal for all the characters. I liked the distinct differences we saw between Sam's year and Dean's time in Purgatory.

I could understand Sam walking away from hunting, everyone he has known or considered part of his family is gone, he had no one to turn to, no leads to follow, nothing. He had been in hunting his whole life and had horrible awful things happen to him. He thought Dean was dead and it had taken his whole family, so I understand why he would leave it and try and start something new.

Dean was harder, edgier, and had guilt hanging all over him , he is hiding something, something that Sam will probably not be happy about. Every time he talked to Sam about Purgatory he would turn away so he didn't have to face Sam. I understand why Dean had to become harder to survive, but I am not sure how I will feel once we find out whatever he is hiding.

I am starting to like Kevin, he is turning into someone who can be a help to the boys. I felt so sorry for him when Crowley killed his girlfriend in front of him. I am guessing it was supposed to reminiscent of Jess dying in front of Sam?

Crowley is evil and crafty as always.
I didn't like Sam's girlfriend, I thought she was a witch to Sam, I am hoping we don't see a lot of her.

i see a quiet menace in Benny, and I don't think I am going to like what his character represents. I do not trust him at all.

Yes, yes, yes to all of the above!

As for Jared/Sam's hair....I hope we've reached the point where it will not get longer. If I see Sam with a ponytail I will hurl!