8.06 Southern Comfort Disscus and Poll

[SoCal]

Well, Garth returns yet again. We he help or hurt. Tell us what you thought about "Southern Comfort."

[lemongrover]

I think I'm done with the show if things don't turn around by January. I can't even begin to express how sad I am that brothers have come to this. "Benny has been a better brother to me than you have been your entire life."-Dean Winchester to Sam Winchester

Why are they destroying Sam this season? Why are they making laundry lists of everything that Sam has done wrong like the message boards? I left so many message boards to get away from crap like this and now, the show has to say them? What happened? I really wish Jeremy Carver had never taken over the show, he is horrible and he does in fact hate Sam.

[Deleted]

Nov 7, 2012 22:31:53 GMT -5 lemongrover said:

I think I'm done with the show if things don't turn around by January. I can't even begin to express how sad I am that brothers have come to this. "Benny has been a better brother to me than you have been your entire life."-Dean Winchester to Sam Winchester

Why are they destroying Sam this season? Why are they making laundry lists of everything that Sam has done wrong like the message boards? I left so many message boards to get away from crap like this and now, the show has to say them? What happened? I really wish Jeremy Carver had never taken over the show, he is horrible and he does in fact hate Sam.

I completely agree. -_- Because Dean hiding information about Benny and how he got out of purgatory is not important at all. Let's continue to hate on Sam.

And I still have no interest in these flashbacks with this pathetic vet girl. She has a sob story.. oh that must mean we must like her!

[lala2]

This was actually the second episode this season I was halfway enjoying, but the brother stuff just brought it way down for me.

I honestly have no idea why these two continue to travel together. Dean has a LOT of pent up resentment and anger toward Sam. He's never forgiven Sam for any of Sam's bad choices or else he wouldn't have mentioned the demon blood drinking or Ruby. Dean's even holding the soulless stuff against Sam. WOW is all I can say to that. He considers Benny his "true" brother (another WOW) so why travel w/Sam? Why doesn't he just drop Sam off at the nearest community college and keep it moving? I know some will say "Dean loves Sam." That's true but that doesn't mean they have to hang around each other. He can love Sam from afar.

Sam. Sam is a wreck this year. The writing for him is horrible, IMO. He admits to running away from the Dean issue, which I'm taking as evidence that Sam indeed did absolutely NOTHING to search for Dean. Oh great. Thanks, Carver! He randomly daydreams about the most unlikeable romantic interest I've ever seen on this show. At least Sam (and Dean) had chemistry w/Bela and Katie Cassidy's Ruby, IMO. JP and LB have no chemistry, and their romance is mind numbingly boring! Plus, Sam is always threatening to leave Dean so why doesn't he just go on his merry way and leave Dean be?

And then there's Benny. What the heck is Sam's problem w/Benny? Am I the only one who wasn't completely clear on that. Sam desperately, IMO, needs better dialogue. He kept saying, "You had Benny" in a very accusatory way but I wasn't sure if that was supposed to mean something. I mean . . . so what if Dean had Benny, Sam. With the horribly OOC way Carver has written you this year, I wish Dean would have responded, "Yeah, I did. You sure weren't trying to help so what the heck do you care?"

Is it possible to get some dialogue to explain Sam's beef w/Benny? Yes, Benny is a vamp, but Sam has befriended monsters before so he needs to calm down. If Sam said something like, " Dean, I know you trust Benny b/c he was there for you but just be careful. I trusted Ruby, and that backfired on me. I don't want you to go down the same road," or something like that. Repeatedly saying, "You had Benny" doesn't mean anything!!! At least it doesn't to me.

I know it's hard for the writers to sit down and think of dialogue for Sam, but they could try you know?

Anyway, there is no fun or joy to the brothers this year. This is more painful, IMO, than last year! I'm not even getting the sense that these two like each other let alone want to hunt together so I can't help but wonder why they continue to travel together. Never thought I'd say it, but they need to cut ties!

[LoveMyBoys]

Last season's finale had me SO excited for this season, and now ... *sigh* I just don't know anymore. What the hell are they doing to the boys? I'm so very tired of them being at odds. And if they make Sam ice Benny and it creates a nasty rift-to-end-all-rifts between the boys, .... *duplicates Sam's royally pissed off face from Blood Brother*

They don't see eye to eye. Instead of talking to one another they keep secrets. Sam wants a normal life. Dean's mad that Sam wants out. The song changes but the dance remains the same. Ugh.

On a different note: As soon as I saw Chester's wife--forget her name--I remembered her as the mom from Croatoan.

[LoveMyBoys]

Nov 7, 2012 23:25:15 GMT -5 lala2 said:

This was actually the second episode this season I was halfway enjoying, but the brother stuff just brought it way down for me.

I, too, was initially enjoying it: about halfway through, I was thinking that it felt a bit like old SN episodes, and it was nice to get back to that feeling. And then the end came with all of "the brother stuff [that] ... brought it way down."

Anyway, there is no fun or joy to the brothers this year. This is more painful, IMO, than last year! I'm not even getting the sense that these two like each other let alone want to hunt together so I can't help but wonder why they continue to travel together. Never thought I'd say it, but they need to cut ties!

Oh God, YES!! With every episode I find myself thinking, why is Sam still hanging around with Dean when it seems like he wants to be anywhere else but there? It feels like he's emotionally pulled away from Dean, and they no longer have the bond they used to have. And Dean is using anyone else he can, first Cas, then Benny, to take Sam's place. I almost can't believe these are the same brothers we've been watching over the years.

[lemongrover]

Nov 7, 2012 23:25:15 GMT -5 lala2 said:

This was actually the second episode this season I was halfway enjoying, but the brother stuff just brought it way down for me.

I honestly have no idea why these two continue to travel together. Dean has a LOT of pent up resentment and anger toward Sam. He's never forgiven Sam for any of Sam's bad choices or else he wouldn't have mentioned the demon blood drinking or Ruby. Dean's even holding the soulless stuff against Sam. WOW is all I can say to that. He considers Benny his "true" brother (another WOW) so why travel w/Sam? Why doesn't he just drop Sam off at the nearest community college and keep it moving? I know some will say "Dean loves Sam." That's true but that doesn't mean they have to hang around each other. He can love Sam from afar.

Sam. Sam is a wreck this year. The writing for him is horrible, IMO. He admits to running away from the Dean issue, which I'm taking as evidence that Sam indeed did absolutely NOTHING to search for Dean. Oh great. Thanks, Carver! He randomly daydreams about the most unlikeable romantic interest I've ever seen on this show. At least Sam (and Dean) had chemistry w/Bela and Katie Cassidy's Ruby, IMO. JP and LB have no chemistry, and their romance is mind numbingly boring! Plus, Sam is always threatening to leave Dean so why doesn't he just go on his merry way and leave Dean be?

And then there's Benny. What the heck is Sam's problem w/Benny? Am I the only one who wasn't completely clear on that. Sam desperately, IMO, needs better dialogue. He kept saying, "You had Benny" in a very accusatory way but I wasn't sure if that was supposed to mean something. I mean . . . so what if Dean had Benny, Sam. With the horribly OOC way Carver has written you this year, I wish Dean would have responded, "Yeah, I did. You sure weren't trying to help so what the heck do you care?"

Is it possible to get some dialogue to explain Sam's beef w/Benny? Yes, Benny is a vamp, but Sam has befriended monsters before so he needs to calm down. If Sam said something like, " Dean, I know you trust Benny b/c he was there for you but just be careful. I trusted Ruby, and that backfired on me. I don't want you to go down the same road," or something like that. Repeatedly saying, "You had Benny" doesn't mean anything!!! At least it doesn't to me.

I know it's hard for the writers to sit down and think of dialogue for Sam, but they could try you know?

Anyway, there is no fun or joy to the brothers this year. This is more painful, IMO, than last year! I'm not even getting the sense that these two like each other let alone want to hunt together so I can't help but wonder why they continue to travel together. Never thought I'd say it, but they need to cut ties!

Me too. I started off enjoying the episode until Dean's speech. I honestly think it was written based off some of the comments made at IMDB and TWOP. And Sam has to match Dean's nastiest at the end? Um, I'm so confused. Dean wants Sam to stay, but he thinks Benny is the best brother ever? Well, I'm sure he could train Benny to take Sam's place. Especially, since Castiel and Sam are so horrible. I'm not going to forgive the show for awhile for these comments. I honestly think they have screwed up the show this season and each episode just keeps proving it more and more. No one is likable this season. Sam has been written horribly out of character and now, he is acting like a jerk. WTF?

I'm beginning to think that the show is in fact trying to make it so the fans hate Sam and Dean together and they can break up the Winchesters. The writers really resent the fans for not liking Sam and Dean apart, so they are going to force you into thinking it's the right thing for them. I'm sick of it. I really don't get it and I hate how Carver is taking the show. He has no respect for Sam, doesn't think Sam should have any sympathy, and puts Sam with an utter bitch. Dean has a better relationship with a vampire. I get that Carver said that everyone would get their kicks and licks in, but this is just bad writing. I don't need to watch a show about two brothers just hating on each other. There are some days I really wish Kim Manners was still with us, because he saw that it was the Winchesters brothers who made the show and I have a feeling he wouldn't be letting it get this bad.

But right now, I feel like the EDG are writing the show. They want Dean to have these great relationships to replace, a better brother, and for Dean to throw it in Sam's face. While Sam is boring and out of character, so it will be okay when Dean leaves him. I really think THE SHOW WANTS YOU TO BASH SAM and BEG FOR DEAN TO RUN OFF WITH SOMEONE ELSE. So, it's either one hell of a twist or the EDGs have successfully destroyed the brotherhood.

So far this season has been the biggest disappointment to the point I'm thinking the show should have ended in the second season, because at least the true heart and soul of the show would have been preserved. I really don't understand why anyone from the cast thinks this season is good. It's boring, drama city with bad characterization.

[lala2]

Lemongrover, I think it has worked for me. Here comes a really controversial statement - but Sam could be killed off in the next episode, and I don't think I would care. What is JP doing anyway? They just have him standing around having FBs of a boring relationship. That's it. He has NO story this year, or at least, IMO, none worth watching. Not only is his story bad, but they've set out to systematically, IMO, destroy his character and turn him into someone I don't recognize or necessarily like. For instance, Sam's beef w/Benny makes little sense given Sam's own complex history and past experiences. If Sam learned that Benny had saved Dean while in Purgatory, how could he justifiably be upset? He really can't. Dean did what he had to survive. He trusts this vampire just like Sam trusted Lenore. Why are the writers purposely ignoring Sam's history to twist the story or create conflict where there should be none?

Let me be clear - I LOVE Sam. Even though this OOC writing is slowly destroying the character, I still love Sam. But since the writers seem intent on not giving him a perspective, I wouldn't have a problem w/him dying. I would just turn off the show and read a good book at that point.

At this point, I'm watching simply b/c I have watched since the premiere, and I wanted to see how their story ended. I'm not watching b/c I enjoy the show or expect good things from it. This entire season has been bad to me, and this episode was no exception.

The show doesn't even have credibility anymore. Does anyone honestly believe after those revelations from Dean, those two would just get in the Impala and go to another hunt? Really? I don't think so. I think Sam would either choose to leave or Dean would kick Sam to the curb since Dean doesn't really like Sam at the moment.

So far this season has been the biggest disappointment to the point I'm thinking the show should have ended in the second season, because at least the true heart and soul of the show would have been preserved. I really don't understand why anyone from the cast thinks this season is good. It's boring, drama city with bad characterization.

Yup. I even find it more disappointing than S7. Sera may have had the boys acting like co-workers, but I never got the feeling they actively disliked each other and wanted to be w/other people. I'm not saying it's abnormal for them to like other people, but for me, this show really only works if they WANT to hunt together. It doesn't work if they are being forced together, and that's what's happening. It's not realistic at this point. In real life, they would have decided to split. It makes no sense for them to continue to stay together. It's bordering on ridiculous at this point!

[Aeryn]

I actually forgot the show was on last night...it was taped automatically, but I have no desire to see it.

It's finished. Supernatural is officially dead.

[LoveMyBoys]

Nov 8, 2012 8:30:57 GMT -5 lala2 said:

At this point, I'm watching simply b/c I have watched since the premiere, and I wanted to see how their story ended. I'm not watching b/c I enjoy the show or expect good things from it. This entire season has been bad to me, and this episode was no exception.

...

Yup. I even find it more disappointing than S7. Sera may have had the boys acting like co-workers, but I never got the feeling they actively disliked each other and wanted to be w/other people. I'm not saying it's abnormal for them to like other people, but for me, this show really only works if they WANT to hunt together. It doesn't work if they are being forced together, and that's what's happening. It's not realistic at this point. In real life, they would have decided to split. It makes no sense for them to continue to stay together. It's bordering on ridiculous at this point!

And it's so sad, isn't it? But you're right, the way you've expressed your views makes me realize I'm watching more out of nostalgia than a true desire and excitement to see what comes next. I can't let it go until the end, but man do I wish it could be now what it used to be. I miss it terribly.

[SoCal]

Well, then, I guess I am in the minority here. I liked the episode. It had some of the old monster a week hunts we used to get before the angels took over.

And I don't mind the drama between Dean and Sam. AND I do not understand those who do. Can we please have a little tension between two grown men who travel around in the same car hunting evil? I should think that would bring out some of the worst in everyone.

I'm not even going to try to get into the back and forth between each character and what has happened to them over the 7+ years of this show. But if all we got to see was hugs/love/togetherness, it would have lost my interest long ago. What family members don't get angry and/or resentful of others? When do family members not keep secrets from others? Jeez, come on.

And I didn't even mind Garth being in the mix this time. I sort of enjoyed him and the fact that he has decided to try to take Bobby's place (not with Dean and Sam, never with them) but with other hunters who need advice or direction.

The only thing I find unsatisfying is the Sam/Amelia relationship. It just doesn't do anything for me. And while I can see that Sam is missing her (during his flashbacks), the actress is just not compelling enought for me to buy into their story. Not that she isn't pretty or anything, but she just doesn't play it well, IMO.

Well, I gave it a 4.

So, how do you like them apples?

[waggy3015]

I thought the opening argument between the boys at the Impala was ok. Pretty much agreed with Sam, especially when Dean again brought up the phone off for a year issue.

I liked Sam and Dean's surprise at Garth when he said he went to College and killed the tooth fairy. I thought Dean ripping Bobby's hat off of Garth was kind of mean. IMO, he could have waited until the two of them were alone, otherwise it looked really weird and unprofessional in front of the other cops.

The exchange between Dean and Garth, I felt both guys were right. Dean was correct that the best way to honor Bobby was to take what he taught Garth and be the best hunter he can be. Garth was right in that Bobby didn't just belong to Sam and Dean. Sure, he was the closest to them, aside from Rufus, but a lot of hunters depended on him. On his skills, expertise, and connections. So Sam and Dean can't act like they are the only one's that get to mourn Bobby. That being said, in Dean's case, he might still have some unresolved grieving issues where Bobby's concerned and seeing Garth "playing Bobby", brought those out a little. What I mean is, the same day Sam and Dean put Bobby to rest, is the day he gets sucked into Purgatory, where he's fighting for his life 24/7, so he probably doesn't have a lot of time to reflect on Bobby being gone.

I was happy that Garth stood up to Dean after Dean yelled at him, even though he was a little shaky. Dean needed to hear it, so I'm glad that Garth didn't chicken out.

I hated what Dean was saying to Sam, especially the bit about Benny being more of a brother than Sam ever was. I know he was under the influence, but everything he said had to come from somewhere. Loved Garth being brave enough to get in between Sam and Dean to try to keep Dean from killing Sam. Not that I thought he'd let them kill each other, but the fact that he positioned himself in front of Dean's gun and continued to try and talk Dean down.

I enjoyed Garth giving the "you and Sam are all each other has left" speech to Dean. Loved the hug and Dean giving Garth Bobby's hat back to him.

Sam and Dean's conversation in the end at the Impala kind of left me uneasy. I liked that Sam stood up for himself, but I'm afraid he might have drawn a line in the sand with Dean concerning the bit about maybe being the hunter to kill Benny.

As for Amelia and Sam, I felt bad for her when she spoke about her husband and losing him. One thing that's bothering about this is that Sam's flashbacks don't really flow with the show. Sam looks at an ice bucket and he remembers something or he looks at a sidewalk or Garth's car and he recalls something. Verses Dean's flashbacks seem to make more sense. Like a few weeks ago when he nearly choked that prisoner to death with his belt, Dean recalled when he did something similar to a creature in Purgatory while trying to get information about Cas' whereabouts.

[novemberschild]

I gave this one a three, better than last time when I had to watch 3 times to decide how I felt about the episode.

Let's get the bad out of the way first- Some of the dialog was just odd or bordered on the juvenile, but maybe that was because Adam Glass wrote it.

I just don't care for the actress who plays Amelia, and I don't like the character, she and Sam don't have any chemistry and while I am glad that we are getting some of Sam's flashbacks, I find them dull and boring.

I still am not a fan of Garth, but I liked how he stood up to Dean and called him out on Bobby not belonging to Sam and Dean. He was almost tolerable this episode, almost.

I thought the first part of the episode dragged a little but I liked the last half. I know a lot of you didn't and I think this is another divisive episode but I did like it.

I liked the little montage of how the penny made it's way from person to person.
I also liked how even though Dean was pointing a gun at Sam (while under the influence) Sam didn't back down and stood up for himself. I also liked how Sam really stood up for himself and called Dean out on how Dean has been treating Sam since Dean came back.
I like Sam and Dean both and I can understand how you can get totally pissed at some one and yet still have be to be around them. They don't really have anyone else, they need to stick together. We still stick with our family when we are mad at them,so I don't expect anything different from these two.
I agree that some of what is going on is not coming together, but I also remember JC saying that things are not as they appear and I am waiting to see some huge surprises coming or at least I hope so.

[SoCal]

I, too, enjoyed the episode. I like some tension between Dean and Sam. It makes for good stories. Plus, we know, they usually always find a way to get through the upset and resolve it.

I was miserable when I first learned that Garth was coming back, but you know, I was pleasently surprised. He didn't irritate me in this episode. I like his interaction with both Dean and Sam. He told Sam that he and Dean were speaking to each other but not really listening to each other and told Dean That Bobby was special to many others -- that he didn't have total owenership of that loss.

I would still rather see them bring back Frank. He was such a great character and I am holding tight to the hope that he faked his death and will be seen again. Puuuullllleeeeeeeeeeeeze!

[evilsquirre1]

Oddly enough I liked Garth in this episode and I hate myself for saying that. But Dean needed to hear what he said about everyone losing Bobby not just Dean and Sam. This finally gave DJ Qualls a character to play instead of a boring walking joke. That pleases me. ;D

I'm bugged by the way Sam is portrayed this season. Dean has a right to be pissed with Sam for leaving him. Because guess what I've seen from those stupid flashbacks with the vet chick (who I still don't like and refuse to learn her name until they make me like her) it doesn't explain why Sam was abandon Dean and not even try to find out what happened to his body. I don't have a problem with Sam questioning Dean on leaving Bennie alive and I don't have a problem with Dean questioning Sam on his crap. I prefer them fighting that all the secret keeping. So I rated this episode a 4 one of the best of this season. They are improving which I'm pleased about.

So Cal right there with you on Frank; he is my favorite and he wasn't for sure dead. No body, of course if a Levi ate him there might not be leftovers. Or maybe they got full and make a Frank body's parts doggy bag.

[LoveMyBoys]

Don't get me wrong: I love the show. It's what they're doing to the boys' relationship that is proving problematic for me and affecting the way I feel about the show overall. But there are still lots of things I like about it even in the face of all my complaining. That's probably not apparent because I focus on only the negatives and don't bring up the positives.

I like Benny. I don't see him as manipulative, so if he turns out to be duplicitous, I'm right there with Dean in being fooled. I don't mind that. I've never had a problem with Garth. He can be quite funny. But I don't like that, in taking over for Bobby, he tried to BE Bobby. He should be his own man in the role, not try to imitate Bobby and his mannerisms. So far I've enjoyed the episodes this season, though Heartache was a bit of a misstep for me (but not terrible) and Bitten was hard to watch because it didn't feel like an episode of SN. The boys were marginalized in that story; for the first time I felt my interest drifting, and I considered flicking through other channels. I had to make myself keep watching it, which has NEVER happened for me with a single other episode of this show.

It feels like the angst has been created for angst's sake because they want the strife and drama. I agree that everything should not be hunky-dory all the time, and I enjoy a good fight between them, but tension should come from genuine disagreements or animosity generated due to their positional differences on matters. Here it feels less organic because Sam's characterization is off. He's the one who's always been open to the idea of not all monsters are evil. Given his past with Lenore, I have a hard time accepting his closed-mindedness where Benny is concerned. I could understand if there was some reluctance, but outright denial seems too much.

Also, it doesn't feel like his heart is in being with Dean. It's like he's just in it to do this last mission involving Kevin, but all the while he's focused on getting out of there when the job is done, as if his mind is already back there with Amelia--who is rather uninteresting (aside from her harshness rubbing me the wrong way). I don't feel any chemistry between those two, and it's really hard to buy their relationship as a reason why Sam values the year he had with her and wants to give up hunting to get back to that life.

To some extent it seems like they revisit the same issues over and over, just with new window dressing. If they keep retreading some of the same ground, have they really grown or learned anything? The difference I'm feeling now when they get pissed at one another is that the underlying love doesn't feel as present as it did in the past. They don't feel as bonded as before but more like two guys who work together. The core of their relationship seems altered, and from my perspective it's coming from Sam's approach to their reunion, because Dean sought him out once he got topside and had to practically beg for a hug when they were face to face. So I think the writers' characterization is off there, too.

The whole "things are not as they appear" is another thing that's been done before. It was tiring in season 6 because I kept questioning what I could trust as real or take at face value and wondering when the other shoe was going to fall and reveal the truth of things. But I did it not because events in the show had me questioning them but because comments like this from outside the show made me do it. It bothers me when this isn't a natural extension of what you see in the story being told, that you have to be told it by the author to pick up on it.

I guess I had some expectations as to where this season would go, and instead of going through the immediate aftermath we got a year jump--yet again--and glimpses of it in flashbacks. That change is taking some adjustment on my part.

[SoCal]

While I agree with much of what you say, LMB, I also think it must be very difficult after 7+ years of a show to keep everything completely fresh and new. Plus certain things have to be part of the whole doxology of the show and should never change.

That being said, I've said many times that I thought the whole angels/hunters scenerio had run its course and should be dropped. But Misha Collins is very popular and his character is staying with the show. Bad idea, IMO. If angels can work miracles and solve problems then what do we need hunters for?

I had high hopes for Jeremy Carver, just as I did for Sera Gamble, and so far, the season has been less than stellar. But the two main characters are so awesome (can I use Dean's catch-phrase?), that I'm willing to stick with it until the very end, hoping for the best. Even the worst episode has some good points in it. Yes, I'm stretching it, but Dean and Sam deserve at least that much.

[Aeryn]

I started to watch it finally, but after Dean said "He's my friend" to Sam, I deleted the recording. I couldn't bear to watch anymore.

[Deleted]

Nov 10, 2012 23:58:40 GMT -5 Aeryn said:

I started to watch it finally, but after Dean said "He's my friend" to Sam, I deleted the recording. I couldn't bear to watch anymore.

Ugh.

[SoCal]

Nov 10, 2012 23:58:40 GMT -5 Aeryn said:

I started to watch it finally, but after Dean said "He's my friend" to Sam, I deleted the recording. I couldn't bear to watch anymore.

Aeryn, you silly girl, you shouldn't have done that since you missed Dean get a talking to by both Garth and Sam....about how Bobby was special to lots of people not just Dean (from Garth), and Sam told him to knock off about why he didn't look for him or he was leaving.

It was a good episode.

[leilan]

Hello! I'm brand new to this forum, so please excuse any newb-ness...

Overall, I liked this episode. I love it when the boys talk about their feelings, whether they want to or not. It’s sad that they rarely ever do unless one of them is forced into it by something evil, but I’ll take it where I can get it. I understand why some people were frustrated with Dean dragging up issues from several seasons ago, but I thought it was justified. The penny forced him to confront the person he felt betrayed by, and let's face it; Sam has betrayed Dean a little too often. The way I saw it was that even though on the surface Dean has come to terms with Sam and Ruby, the demon blood, and the soullessness, deep down he never really got complete closure on these issues. So far, Dean hasn't received any sort of explanation as to why Sam didn't try to find him in Purgatory (*&%$ing Amelia does NOT count as an explanation, dammit), so it is understandable why that's still an issue. The penny, then, just took all of these unresolved issues and magnified them a hundredfold. Even though it wasn't logical for Dean to be angry at Sam for his actions when he was sans soul, it was still something that had made Dean feel hurt and frustrated. Dean's anger towards his brother was fueled by raw emotion rather than logic. Frankly I was happy that they brought up all of Sam’s transgressions against Dean. Sometimes I feel like they smooth over some of the major plot points from past seasons even though they have helped shape the boys over the years, just because it’s easier to avoid the topics instead of confronting them.

To me, Sam and Dean haven’t felt like as much of a team since around the end of season five. My personal hope is that they are finally going to deal with all of the bad shit they’ve done to each other, put it behind them, and get back to a relationship where they support each other and go back to the whole ‘mess with my brother and I will fuck your shit up’ dealio. So I saw this episode as a step in the right direction.

Dean’s claim that Benny was more of a brother to him than Sam had ever been raised my eyebrows. I’m holding off on passing judgment on this claim for two reasons; the first is that, again, Dean was under the influence of an evil penny. This, as far as I could tell, amplified all of his angry thoughts, so it could have been a wayward half-thought that Dean didn’t really believe, but that he said anyways because it felt true while he was so angry. Plus, Benny has seemingly done nothing to ever betray Dean’s trust, so I can see how he might compare Benny and Sam and have Sam come up short. The second reason is that we have only been shown snippets of Dean and Benny’s relationship in Purgatory. It is possible that something crazy happened there that cemented Dean’s trust in Benny so completely that he sees him as a brother.

I personally am hoping that there is more of a story between Benny and Dean’s relationship than what we’ve seen thus far. Because while I can see how fighting their way through a warzone together and having each other’s backs could create a bond of trust, I would think that it would be tenuous and would have broken as soon as Dean was back topside. Something else must have happened to stop Dean from hunting Benny now that he’s free. (At least I hope so!) This would also better explain Dean’s feeling of brotherly closeness to Benny.

I completely agree with the opinion that Sam is very OOC this season. It just doesn’t make sense that he would completely give up on Dean without even trying to find him… Especially after Sam described the feeling of losing Dean as ‘having his whole world implode’. If he felt that strongly about the loss of his brother, it doesn’t add up for him to get distracted by a woman and completely abandon his former life. My theory on this (or really, it’s more of a desperate hope) is that the whole backstory with Amelia has some sort of Supernatural influence. Like she’s a succubus or something. Nothing short of that, in my opinion, would stop Sam from getting Dean back. Sam definitely has displayed some douche-y qualities over the years, but at his core he is not a douche. He loves Dean despite all their shit. I REFUSE to believe that this is his true character.

That being said, I HATE AMELIA. Her and Sam’s whole backstory seems like something from a completely different (and painfully boring) television show. She’s kind of a bitch, and I’m still trying to see what Sam is attracted to, besides the fact that he can do the nasty with her. They have no chemistry whatsoever! You know how sometimes you’re sitting there cheering on the two characters (like I did with Dean and Bela, I’ll admit)? It’s what makes good tv. All the ambiguity, the ‘will they, won’t they’ anticipation. Right now I’m wishing Sam had hit Amelia with the Impala instead of the dog. This is why I’m desperately hoping for a Supernatural twist to their story. Nothing else makes sense!
Honestly, the thing that pisses me off the most about Amelia is that I honestly thought it would be a good plot point. I always thought that if Sammy fell for someone, they would have to be as emotionally effed up as he is. So the fact that they were both dealing with recent loss of a loved one seemed so promising! Instead I kind of just want to gouge my eyes out with a pencil whenever Sam has his cheesy little flashbacks.

At first I thought that Sam’s intense and immediate dislike towards Benny seemed out of character as well, but on closer inspection I’m not so sure. While it is hypocritical of him to begrudge Dean for befriending a monster, perhaps he’s not looking at the situation through the perspective of a hunter. Maybe he’s feeling guilty about abandoning Dean, and he resents Benny because he was there for Dean when Sam wasn’t, and because he feels like Dean kind of replaced Sam with Benny as his ‘brother stand-in’. No one likes feeling replaced. So I feel that I can understand Sam’s dislike of Benny. No, it isn’t fair or logical, but from an emotional standpoint it makes a lot of sense.

I will say, though, that I hope that Dean stops with the pissy fits over Sam ‘turning his phone off for a year’ and Sam with his whining about Benny. They’re kind of beating dead horses, the both of them, and I hope that they resume their more normal way of handling things. Where they just don’t mention it until it explodes in their faces. Plus Dean has made a jibe at Sam about ditching hunting in just about every episode so far this season and it’s kind of annoying.

On a different note, I was pleasantly surprised at how they developed Garth’s character in this episode. I thought it was a very good call to establish someone as Bobby’s replacement. Not, of course, as a father figure to the boys, but as a hunter who everyone sought out when they were in a pinch. Garth was right in saying that the hunting community as a whole suffered a loss when Bobby died. I’m really glad that they addressed this. Even though Garth is nowhere near as experienced and helpful as Bobby was, I think it’s important that someone stepped up to fill Bobby’s role as ‘the guy to call for help’. I also thought it was great that Garth reminded Sam and Dean that they weren’t the only ones who missed Bobby.

Overall, I took this episode to be a foreshadowing to some bigger, more important episodes down the line. I hope they start boogying forward with the plot, though; I feel like not much has happened this season since Kevin ran away. And we’re already six episodes in!

[evilsquirre1]

Nov 10, 2012 23:58:40 GMT -5 Aeryn said:

I started to watch it finally, but after Dean said "He's my friend" to Sam, I deleted the recording. I couldn't bear to watch anymore.

That's a shame. You deleted the recording before Sam's towel scene. Sam came out of the shower wearing only a towel and Dean tossed him a can of beer went to grab it and his towel fell off. Oh well maybe you can YouTube it.

[evilsquirre1]

Nov 12, 2012 0:50:50 GMT -5 leilan said:

Hello! I'm brand new to this forum, so please excuse any newb-ness...

Overall, I liked this episode. I love it when the boys talk about their feelings, whether they want to or not. It’s sad that they rarely ever do unless one of them is forced into it by something evil, but I’ll take it where I can get it. I understand why some people were frustrated with Dean dragging up issues from several seasons ago, but I thought it was justified. The penny forced him to confront the person he felt betrayed by, and let's face it; Sam has betrayed Dean a little too often. The way I saw it was that even though on the surface Dean has come to terms with Sam and Ruby, the demon blood, and the soullessness, deep down he never really got complete closure on these issues. So far, Dean hasn't received any sort of explanation as to why Sam didn't try to find him in Purgatory (*&%$ing Amelia does NOT count as an explanation, dammit), so it is understandable why that's still an issue. The penny, then, just took all of these unresolved issues and magnified them a hundredfold. Even though it wasn't logical for Dean to be angry at Sam for his actions when he was sans soul, it was still something that had made Dean feel hurt and frustrated. Dean's anger towards his brother was fueled by raw emotion rather than logic. Frankly I was happy that they brought up all of Sam’s transgressions against Dean. Sometimes I feel like they smooth over some of the major plot points from past seasons even though they have helped shape the boys over the years, just because it’s easier to avoid the topics instead of confronting them.

To me, Sam and Dean haven’t felt like as much of a team since around the end of season five. My personal hope is that they are finally going to deal with all of the bad shit they’ve done to each other, put it behind them, and get back to a relationship where they support each other and go back to the whole ‘mess with my brother and I will fuck your shit up’ dealio. So I saw this episode as a step in the right direction.

Dean’s claim that Benny was more of a brother to him than Sam had ever been raised my eyebrows. I’m holding off on passing judgment on this claim for two reasons; the first is that, again, Dean was under the influence of an evil penny. This, as far as I could tell, amplified all of his angry thoughts, so it could have been a wayward half-thought that Dean didn’t really believe, but that he said anyways because it felt true while he was so angry. Plus, Benny has seemingly done nothing to ever betray Dean’s trust, so I can see how he might compare Benny and Sam and have Sam come up short. The second reason is that we have only been shown snippets of Dean and Benny’s relationship in Purgatory. It is possible that something crazy happened there that cemented Dean’s trust in Benny so completely that he sees him as a brother.

I personally am hoping that there is more of a story between Benny and Dean’s relationship than what we’ve seen thus far. Because while I can see how fighting their way through a warzone together and having each other’s backs could create a bond of trust, I would think that it would be tenuous and would have broken as soon as Dean was back topside. Something else must have happened to stop Dean from hunting Benny now that he’s free. (At least I hope so!) This would also better explain Dean’s feeling of brotherly closeness to Benny.

I completely agree with the opinion that Sam is very OOC this season. It just doesn’t make sense that he would completely give up on Dean without even trying to find him… Especially after Sam described the feeling of losing Dean as ‘having his whole world implode’. If he felt that strongly about the loss of his brother, it doesn’t add up for him to get distracted by a woman and completely abandon his former life. My theory on this (or really, it’s more of a desperate hope) is that the whole backstory with Amelia has some sort of Supernatural influence. Like she’s a succubus or something. Nothing short of that, in my opinion, would stop Sam from getting Dean back. Sam definitely has displayed some douche-y qualities over the years, but at his core he is not a douche. He loves Dean despite all their shit. I REFUSE to believe that this is his true character.

That being said, I HATE AMELIA. Her and Sam’s whole backstory seems like something from a completely different (and painfully boring) television show. She’s kind of a bitch, and I’m still trying to see what Sam is attracted to, besides the fact that he can do the nasty with her. They have no chemistry whatsoever! You know how sometimes you’re sitting there cheering on the two characters (like I did with Dean and Bela, I’ll admit)? It’s what makes good tv. All the ambiguity, the ‘will they, won’t they’ anticipation. Right now I’m wishing Sam had hit Amelia with the Impala instead of the dog. This is why I’m desperately hoping for a Supernatural twist to their story. Nothing else makes sense!
Honestly, the thing that pisses me off the most about Amelia is that I honestly thought it would be a good plot point. I always thought that if Sammy fell for someone, they would have to be as emotionally effed up as he is. So the fact that they were both dealing with recent loss of a loved one seemed so promising! Instead I kind of just want to gouge my eyes out with a pencil whenever Sam has his cheesy little flashbacks.

At first I thought that Sam’s intense and immediate dislike towards Benny seemed out of character as well, but on closer inspection I’m not so sure. While it is hypocritical of him to begrudge Dean for befriending a monster, perhaps he’s not looking at the situation through the perspective of a hunter. Maybe he’s feeling guilty about abandoning Dean, and he resents Benny because he was there for Dean when Sam wasn’t, and because he feels like Dean kind of replaced Sam with Benny as his ‘brother stand-in’. No one likes feeling replaced. So I feel that I can understand Sam’s dislike of Benny. No, it isn’t fair or logical, but from an emotional standpoint it makes a lot of sense.

I will say, though, that I hope that Dean stops with the pissy fits over Sam ‘turning his phone off for a year’ and Sam with his whining about Benny. They’re kind of beating dead horses, the both of them, and I hope that they resume their more normal way of handling things. Where they just don’t mention it until it explodes in their faces. Plus Dean has made a jibe at Sam about ditching hunting in just about every episode so far this season and it’s kind of annoying.

On a different note, I was pleasantly surprised at how they developed Garth’s character in this episode. I thought it was a very good call to establish someone as Bobby’s replacement. Not, of course, as a father figure to the boys, but as a hunter who everyone sought out when they were in a pinch. Garth was right in saying that the hunting community as a whole suffered a loss when Bobby died. I’m really glad that they addressed this. Even though Garth is nowhere near as experienced and helpful as Bobby was, I think it’s important that someone stepped up to fill Bobby’s role as ‘the guy to call for help’. I also thought it was great that Garth reminded Sam and Dean that they weren’t the only ones who missed Bobby.

Overall, I took this episode to be a foreshadowing to some bigger, more important episodes down the line. I hope they start boogying forward with the plot, though; I feel like not much has happened this season since Kevin ran away. And we’re already six episodes in!

Newbie or not that's a great review of the episode. Sammy bangs a lot of monsters Madison, Ruby, he was attracted to Meg at first, He almost slept with Lilith in Monster at the end of the book. Did Sam make sure that Amelia wasn't some type of Supernatural evil? She sure seems like a soul sucking type of Supernatural scum to me.

This was the first time I felt a connection to Garth and really liked him. If the writers do something for Amelia to make her likable that would be great. If not the make her evil and a plant of Crowley's to keep Sam for looking for his brother or helping Kevin.

[AntiArbitrator]

Just popping in to say hello to everybody and to give the episode a 4 rating.

Leilan, a special hello and welcome to the Supernatural Forum, plus you deserve karma for suggesting Amelia could be a succubus.

[SoCal]

Nov 12, 2012 20:29:24 GMT -5 evilsquirre1 said:

Nov 10, 2012 23:58:40 GMT -5 Aeryn said:

I started to watch it finally, but after Dean said "He's my friend" to Sam, I deleted the recording. I couldn't bear to watch anymore.

That's a shame. You deleted the recording before Sam's towel scene. Sam came out of the shower wearing only a towel and Dean tossed him a can of beer went to grab it and his towel fell off. Oh well maybe you can YouTube it.

If that doesn't have her falling over the furniture to recall the episode, I don't know what will. BTW, Dean's pants fall down as he tosses the beer and he doesn't have any shorts on, either. PUDDING!

[LoveMyBoys]

Nov 10, 2012 18:27:50 GMT -5 SoCal said:

While I agree with much of what you say, LMB, I also think it must be very difficult after 7+ years of a show to keep everything completely fresh and new. Plus certain things have to be part of the whole doxology of the show and should never change.

Yeah, even as I was writing it I knew I was being a bit too judgmental, and even hypocritical--I recall another poster back on the CW Lounge board complaining about something similar, and that time I was on the other side of the argument.

I think I'm just tiring of the formulaic nature of TV storytelling, especially when those aspects are rather apparent in how show elements play out or how or when an episode is presented. We've seen so much of it time and time again that it's hard to be fresh within that framework and even harder still to be completely original.

I had high hopes for Jeremy Carver, just as I did for Sera Gamble, and so far, the season has been less than stellar. But the two main characters are so awesome (can I use Dean's catch-phrase?), that I'm willing to stick with it until the very end, hoping for the best. Even the worst episode has some good points in it. Yes, I'm stretching it, but Dean and Sam deserve at least that much.

Me too. I really can't imagine ever abandoning this show as I have some others.


Your post was beautifully said, leilan; I appreciate your insightful comments--keep them coming! I like your take on some of the events; you've given me some new ways to see things. To that end, I'm wondering now if Sam's reaction to Benny is a bit more in character than I at first realized. I reflected back on only Lenore, but perhaps the events with Amy caused him to step away from his more accepting nature, to now be more wary when it comes to monsters. Certainly, he can't be too happy that he and Dean seem to have flip-flopped their opinions on this matter. Anyway, this is why I love discussions where lots of varied viewpoints get contributed (and why I find myself coming back despite the fear <annoyance> of stumbling across spoilers! ). Thanks for sharing your thoughts, and welcome to our little corner of the internet!

[leilan]

Nov 12, 2012 20:47:13 GMT -5 evilsquirre1 said:

Newbie or not that's a great review of the episode. Sammy bangs a lot of monsters Madison, Ruby, he was attracted to Meg at first, He almost slept with Lilith in Monster at the end of the book. Did Sam make sure that Amelia wasn't some type of Supernatural evil? She sure seems like a soul sucking type of Supernatural scum to me.

This was the first time I felt a connection to Garth and really liked him. If the writers do something for Amelia to make her likable that would be great. If not the make her evil and a plant of Crowley's to keep Sam for looking for his brother or helping Kevin.

I'm glad you guys appreciate my ridicuously longwinded-ness! I've finally found someone who does!

Sam's ratio of human love interests to monster love interests definitely leans farther towards the monsters. I think that Amelia being someone evil would explain a lot. It would certainly make her a more interesting and dynamic character!

Nov 13, 2012 11:13:53 GMT -5 AntiArbitrator said:

Just popping in to say hello to everybody and to give the episode a 4 rating.

Leilan, a special hello and welcome to the Supernatural Forum, plus you deserve karma for suggesting Amelia could be a succubus.

Thank you much for the welcome, and for the karma! Never hurts to have too much of that. ;D

Nov 15, 2012 0:00:54 GMT -5 LoveMyBoys said:

Your post was beautifully said, leilan; I appreciate your insightful comments--keep them coming! I like your take on some of the events; you've given me some new ways to see things. To that end, I'm wondering now if Sam's reaction to Benny is a bit more in character than I at first realized. I reflected back on only Lenore, but perhaps the events with Amy caused him to step away from his more accepting nature, to now be more wary when it comes to monsters. Certainly, he can't be too happy that he and Dean seem to have flip-flopped their opinions on this matter. Anyway, this is why I love discussions where lots of varied viewpoints get contributed (and why I find myself coming back despite the fear <annoyance> of stumbling across spoilers! ). Thanks for sharing your thoughts, and welcome to our little corner of the internet!

I'm glad you found my thoughts insightful! The boys have definitely been flip-floppy on their morals concerning leaving monsters alive. I was a bit surprised when Sam all but promised to hunt Benny because he's so often the one to stay his hand. But again, I attribute that to him being pissed at Dean.

Thanks again, all, for the warm welcome! I think my friends were tired of hearing my specific opinions on a show they don't even watch.