8.09 "Citizen Fang" Discussion Supernatural

[AntiArbitrator]

Citizen Fang Producer Jeremy Carver’s Preview

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuSne3Q3ekE&feature=colike
[/youtube]

[SoCal]

I am really looking forward to this episode. Looks like it will be filled with lots of drama, excitement and even some brotherly angnst......all the things we love about "Supernatural!"

[lemongrover]

That was just sad and pathetic. Seriously? I feel like I'm watching 90201 meets sappy monsters. Utterly slow, utterly boring, unforgivable fuck of an episode. I could have been finishing my papers. I could have been watching paint dry and it still would have been more entertaining than this. What the fuck?

The Vampire Diaries has less melodrama. Comparing this episode to a soap opera would be an insult to soap operas. Dean decided to fake call Amelia? Amelia is back in the present? The love triangle is real? I'm blaming Dean for making Sam think Amelia needed him.

We found nothing out about the person standing outside Sam and Amelia's house.

And Benny killed Martin. And everything is exactly how it fucking looks. What a shock.

Kripke come back! Come back!!! I'm begging you!!! Because if I drank, I would be drinking after this episode realizing what my favorite show has become. I gave it a 0, because we're not allowed to give negative numbers. Come back, Kripke.

BECAUSE AT THIS POINT BENNY IS GOING TO START SPARKING IN HIS NEXT APPEARANCE!!! MAKE IT STOP!! Anti-bacterial hand gel poured on a paper-cut is less painful than this garbage. What the hell?!

[waggy3015]

Wow, that episode was intense. Here are my thoughts.

I wasn’t upset with Sam having Martin keep tabs on Benny when the bodies started piling up. Not telling Dean, that’s debatable. On one hand, if Sam had told Dean, Dean could just tell Benny and Benny could skip town and start killing somewhere else—if he were involved. The other side of it is that Sam didn’t tell Dean because he wanted to get all his ducks in a row before presenting his case to Dean. I was pleased that Sam was willing to give Dean some time to investigate whether or not Benny was involved, despite Martin’s protests. Martin completely shocked me when he punched Dean. I was happy that Sam got in Martin’s face when they were leaving and said that he(Sam) brought him in, he can take him out.

I wasn’t too happy with Dean’s statement about Benny never letting him down. It sounded too much like what Dean said in Southern Comfort under the influence of the Specter that Benny was a better brother, etc.

I did chuckle a little when Dean found out that Elizabeth was actually Benny’s great-granddaughter and not Benny’s girlfriend. I did think that Martin was really creepy when he was talking to Benny on the phone and Elizabeth at the diner.

I think that Benny should have called Dean right after Martin called him. Dean couldn’t have been that far away yet. Based on what I read from the spoilers, I figured Martin was going to die in this episode. I wonder what happened to Benny.

I was a bit surprised that when Sam got the text from Amelia, he just took off and didn’t let Martin know he was leaving. He didn’t say anything to Martin, which I thought was bad considering the two of them were hunting Benny. You would have thought with him leaving he would have told Martin under no uncertain terms to hang back until he returned.

The other big shock for me in this episode was that DEAN was the one that sent the text message tricking Sam into thinking it came from Amelia. If I was Sam, I would be pissed too. So between the fake text message, finding out Martin is dead, and hearing from Dean that Martin had it coming, I don’t blame Sam for not really wanting to listen to Dean and hanging up on him. Admittedly, it may have been a bit childish, but I’d rather have him do that than say something he’ll regret later.

So was Dean’s “darn!” at the end because he realized he might have gone a little too far.

All in all, I’m a bit upset that Sam and Dean are separated at the moment, although half of that’s due to location. Finally, I thought the show was coming back on January 9th, yet the promo said January 16th? Just a commercial mistake or did the CW already decide to push it back a week?

[waggy3015]

We found nothing out about the person standing outside Sam and Amelia's house.

I was wondering about that too. I thought we were supposed to learn the identity of that person.

Then again, I've read multiple articles the last few days concerning both this episode and future episodes, so I might have misinterpreted that we'd learn the identity in this episode when it will actually be in a later episode.

[SoCal]

Well, it was an okay episode.

What ruined it for me were the Sam "flashbacks." They've become really intrusive and disruptive to the episode's storyline. And he just seems to drift off.......

Whatever happended to Dean's flashbacks to Purgatory? One would think that that year of trauma would be causing him at least as many problems as Sam's involvment with a chick.

I noticed some bad production items. At the very start of the episode, Dean had a mark on the right side of his forehead (I noticed it when he brought his food into the car), but it mysteriously disappeared as the episode continued. Then we see Martin smack Dean on the head. The injury then appears for the rest of the episode. Who on the production staff didn't notice that? Also, Dean's neck injury mysteriously disappears after the vamp kill. Seriously, production crew, someone is asleep at the switch. When Kripke was at the helm, these little but important items were never overlooked.

Interesting to see how gung-ho Martin became and how mad he was at Dean for choosing to side with a vampire. But I was surprised to see him hold a machete to an innocent girl's neck to get Benny to surrender.

Sorry to see that Benny had to kill Martin. That will certainly put Dean on his tail.......or......maybe not. Seems he told Sam that "it was taken care of....." but that Martin was a casualty. Does that mean Dean is still giving his Purgatory buddy a pass? Even though he killed a fellow hunter? A hunter who had been a friend of his father's?

Sad to see Dean and Sam at odds again. Sam seemed willing to trust Dean and to give him a chance to prove Benny's innocence. But when Benny said something about Dean having family (Sam), Dean seemed to shrug as if Sam as his family wasn't as important anymore.

Hated it when Amelia showed up in the bar. I was hoping that after Sam saw her at home with her husband, that would be the end of her......AND WE WOULD NEVER SEE HER AGAIN. Crap.

I guess both Benny and Amelia are in the boys and our future.

Well, at least we only have to wait 6 weeks until new episodes return.

[LoveMyBoys]

Dec 6, 2012 9:55:02 GMT -5 SoCal said:

I noticed some bad production items. At the very start of the episode, Dean had a mark on the right side of his forehead (I noticed it when he brought his food into the car), but it mysteriously disappeared as the episode continued. Then we see Martin smack Dean on the head. The injury then appears for the rest of the episode.

I noticed it at the start as well (though I didn't note it disappearing; I'd have to rewatch to check). My thought was that it was an actual injury Jensen had, and they were covering it with makeup until it could be explained for Dean later with the clock to his head. *shrug* Don't know.

Sorry to see that Benny had to kill Martin. That will certainly put Dean on his tail.......or......maybe not. Seems he told Sam that "it was taken care of....." but that Martin was a casualty. Does that mean Dean is still giving his Purgatory buddy a pass? Even though he killed a fellow hunter? A hunter who had been a friend of his father's?

I don't think he will. But that's just my take. I was actually surprised Benny killed him--I was expecting Benny to lay down his life, especially considering his state of mind in Blood Brother. And then I thought either Dean would come in at the last second and kill Martin to stop him, or he'd be pissed enough at Martin for doing it that he might go after him.

Sad to see Dean and Sam at odds again. Sam seemed willing to trust Dean and to give him a chance to prove Benny's innocence. But when Benny said something about Dean having family (Sam), Dean seemed to shrug as if Sam as his family wasn't as important anymore.

indeed.

Hated it when Amelia showed up in the bar. I was hoping that after Sam saw her at home with her husband, that would be the end of her......

I just don't get how we go from what was shown in this episode, where Sam was taking off during the day--was it the day? maybe I'm assuming incorrectly here--and told Amelia that he was going so she could try to make it work with Don, to what happened in the premiere, with Sam sneaking out in the middle of the night, still with her and no Don in sight.

[leilan]

I've gotta say, I'm a bit disappointed in how lackluster season 8 has been so far action-wise. It's been really low-key, and I'm so used to intense, twisty amazing plots and interesting character development that the fact that we're kind of missing the amazing plots makes me sad. In this episode, it was like, "Oh look. Sam and Martin think Benny killed some folks. But we know that isn't true. Oh look, a convenient explanation. Some random vampire wanting Benny's help in starting a nest. Oh look, he's dead. Oh look, now Martin is trying to kill Benny. Oh look, Martin's dead." It was so linear and boring. There was minimal Dean whumpage and no Sam whumpage. Meh.

That being said, I did find that the episode provided some intriguing insight into Sam, Dean and Benny. In Benny's case, I really love how human-like he is. The fact that he goes back to his hometown and gets a job with his great-granddaughter at his old diner was telling. I get the sense that Benny got bored of being a vampire, and now he's doing his best to regain his humanity. Of course that theory is starkly juxtaposed with the opposing evidence of Benny ripping Martin's throat out. In his defense, he killed him to protect himself and Elizabeth. Is that so different from what a human would do in the same situation, except without the throat-ripping? I am loving how Benny's character is fleshing out.

I kind of had a love-hate relationship with Dean this episode. I can't figure out if I agree with his actions or if I'm against them. I think it was brilliant of Dean to replace Amelia's number with a burner cell to distract Sam, but it was a dick move. At the same time, though, it's not like Sam was exactly on Dean's side. Dean did what he could to protect Benny. And on that note, Dean and Benny. I kind of love their "brother" relationship. I can't wait to see how Dean's relationship with Benny will further throw a wrench in his relationship with Sam. I can't say I like it when Dean and Sam are at odds, but it does make for some exciting episodes (I hope).

I could not believe that Sam literally left Martin stranded in the woods to go running back to Amelia. This definitely has something to do with the fact that I hate Amelia, but it's more than just that. It showed that deep down, Sam still cares more about her than he does about Dean or hunting anymore, and I CAN"T UNDERSTAND IT! Why, Sam, why? She is the most boring character I have ever seen in this show! Even if you and Dean are in a tiff, why are you so quick to ditch him?

I am so bummed that my 'Amelia is a succubus or some such other monster' theory is looking more and more incorrect. That being said, I can't WAIT for them to get a move on this story line and give us some answers! And if they are unsatisfactory answers I'm gonna flip my shit. I could understand Sam's need for and dependence on Amelia when he was coping with Dean's disappearance. But I never got the impression that they loved each other, or that they were in love, but rather that they were both broken and holding on desperately to each other. So, if the cause of Sam's dependence on Amelia was Dean, now that he's back, what's the draw? I just can't see it. Normally the actors on Supernatural are so amazing because they are able to convey their relationships with each other just through looks and body language. But Sam and Amelia seem so... flat. I hate it.

Once again, I'm really tired of them creating a new hunter/dragging up an old one as a convenient way to forward the plot, and then killing him/her. I used to find the character deaths interesting, but now they're almost excessive. I also really didn't like Martin in this episode at all. I know he was supposedly mentally unstable, but for me that doesn't excuse his actions towards the boys and Benny. He didn't just want to kill Benny; he wanted to cause him and Elizabeth pain by dragging out the truth first. I was actually happy when he died because now they can't bring him back for another shoddy supporting role.

I'd just like to mention one more time how hypocritical these brothers are. In this episode, Sam said something along the lines of, "Benny's a vampire. We kill vampires, period." Or some such thing. And I'm yelling at the tv, "Um, hello, Lenore? Not to mention the werewolf chick you left alone five episodes ago." I'm sensing that Sam wants Benny dead more because of how much Dean likes and trusts him than because he's a vampire. Someone's jealous!

This episode was boring as hell in terms of action, and was very predictable. But I think it did a potentially great job for setting up some very intense scenes in later episodes. That being said, I agree with lemongrover. Kripke could have made something a million times better. He is sorely missed. I feel like the oomph for this series has gone. I have not screamed, yelped or cried from any scary monster or situation, my mind has not been blown by insanely creative and thought-provoking plots, and my pulse has not pounded any harder than normal. In my book, this is an outrage. Here's hoping for bigger and better things in 2013!

Dec 6, 2012 14:40:11 GMT -5 LoveMyBoys said:

I just don't get how we go from what was shown in this episode, where Sam was taking off during the day--was it the day? maybe I'm assuming incorrectly here--and told Amelia that he was going so she could try to make it work with Don, to what happened in the premiere, with Sam sneaking out in the middle of the night, still with her and no Don in sight.

I was confused about this too, LoveMyBoys. I'll have to rewatch this episode to make full sense of it. I think what happened is that Sam started packing and Amelia found him, and he agreed to stay to placate her. But then he snuck out that night anyway cuz he's Sam. I could be wrong, though; it was really poorly explained. I was really confused during the premiere as to how Sam knew where to find Dean. Does anyone know?

[SoCal]

I'm beginning to think Sam went to Rufus's house because that's where he and Dean (and Bobby) lived for a while. He had to go somewhere after leaving her, and, I suppose, that place was a kind of home for him.

But, like you, I'm confused on the whole Dean/Sam meet-up. It almost looked like Dean was expecting Sam to walk in the door. And Sam, while surprised to see Dean, wasn't as surprised as I would have been had my brother, whom I thought was dead......and dead for a year, just turned up. They glossed over that all way too quickly and had them hunting for Kevin almost immediately. Poor story writing, IMO.

These guys need some remedial lessons from Kripke.

[evilsquirre1]

Finally I feel like this season is on track. ;D Bennie is my favorite new character. I really enjoyed the fact the Bennie/Roy came back to work with his great grand daughter to watch over her. I was sad to see Martin completely lose it but it's not surprising Sam put him in a difficult position.

I'm glad to see the writers are keeping the difficult relationship between Sam and Dean. Sam deserves Dean's contempt after he walked away and left Dean in purgatory. Would you leave your Brother who loves you so much he went to hell to bring you back to life, who has protected you your whole life and raised you, who forgave you when you lied to him and released Lucifer. After all this your brother goes missing and you don't look at all. You just turn off your phone and start banging an annoying married vet bitch. Seriously!! I feel bad for Jared having to play a Sam that is this selfish.

In the past Sam's missteps came from trying to do the right thing and trusting the wrong Demon. This season he just stopped caring, about his brother, about hunting, and left Kevin unprotected. Who is the new dude, because it's not the Sam I know from Seasons 1 to 7. Now Sam has an attitude because Dean trusts a vampire over him. Sounds like the definition of Hypocrite to me. Sam hadn't no reason to chose Ruby over Dean. Dean trusting Bennie makes sense after all Bennie saved him from Purgatory after Sam left him, to get laid and hit a dog.

The writers will have a hard task explaining to the fans why Sam would act like a complete ass this season. They really wrote themselves into a corner, it should be interesting to see if they can fix it.

[novemberschild]

I had to watch this one 3 times and I read countless reviews and opinions on it before i could decide what I felt about it. I gave it a 2, it was OK, but not great.

I still don't trust Benny, he is up to something and I think we will see it by the end of the season. He also acted odd when he and Dean went to the warehouse after the other vamp. I do think he will drink again, he was having a hard time with it now and it will only become harder.

Martin was not mostly okay, he was mostly not okay and he was wrong for hitting Dean and using Elizabeth to lure in Benny.

I think Sam was still rattled by the events of the last episode and didn't seem to know what way to turn and how to act. It wasn't right of Sam to leave Martin in the middle of nowhere at night.

Sam and Dean were a little different in this one, they had tension between them at the beginning but they did try to show each other a little respect and try to talk about what was going on. The old Sam and Dean would have just yelled and thrown punches, I think maybe we are seeing the guys grow and mature some.

It wasn't right of Dean to lure Sam away the way he did but I think maybe he did that to protect Sam to keep him safe.
I noticed that even though Sam and Dean had lots of tension as the episode went along, Dean never got mad at Sam, he never yelled or threw a punch, he was trying to communicate more, he wanted to tell Sam what happened and Sam didn't want to listen.
I think this is the guys growing and maturing some, I know that family drives you crazy and knows what buttons to push, but at the end you are still a family.
I know how I looked at this is probably a lot different than how others took it, but it took me a while before I could decide how I felt about it.

[leilan]

On a different note, did anyone else notice the name of the city in Louisiana where Benny was from? It was Carencro, which also happens to be the name of an album by Marc Broussard, an artist that Jared and Jensen both like. Coincidence? Perhaps. But they do like including little inside jokes like that sometimes. Fun little tidbit, regardless.

[AntiArbitrator]

Dean/Jensen misses Benny

Supernatural Insider
Jensen Ackles on Benny: "The character itself I think was really cool, because Dean's never really had a relationship anywhere close to that. His relationship with his brother is what it is, and everybody knows about that, then there's the relationship with Cas, which was strained and tattered and torn, and there was a whole bunch of stuff there. But to have somebody who was a war hero with you, to have a brother-in-arms kind of thing, was something that hadn't really been explored, so I really liked that connection that Dean had ... kudos to [Jeremy] Carver for going with that storyline. I thought it was awesome, the whole Purgatory thing. Selfishly, I hope that Benny comes back."

[SoCal]

I saw that article. In it was also mentioned that Sam's love interest, Amelia, is gone for good! Yay! Didn't care for either the character or the actress playing her. Just not a good match for Jared.

It would be fun to see what happens to Benny while he's "topside." He and Dean had forged such a bond that it seemed a little weak just to have it end over a phone call.

[ezpzy]

I agree that the phone call was a weak way to end it. The friendship bond was logical and well played. Benny sounded desperate and it had to be difficult for Dean to hear that desperation in his voice and say "adios". I am glad Jensen did not say Benny went dark side. That was my greatest concern for Benny.