8.12 "As Time Goes By" Supernatural DISCUSSION

[AntiArbitrator]

Not every day your grandfather flies out of the closet.



Additional clips

[AntiArbitrator]

PHOTOS “As Time Goes By”

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=nQHH5u54Rj4&feature=endscreen
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[AntiArbitrator]

I was shocked to turn the TV on and there was no Supernatural. A basketball game is on. Fortunately, regular programming is scheduled to play following the game. Unfortunately, if the game runs over, only part of the shows will be recorded.

[novemberschild]

Hi Anti, There is a stupid basketball game on here also, now I have to wait an hour longer. GRRR not happy about this at all!

[AntiArbitrator]

The game ran 20 minutes into Arrow. And they are not showing it from the beginning.

[lemongrover]

I am in shock. First episode of the season that was awesome!!! I can't believe how good that episode was!! WHY HASN'T THE ENTIRE SEASON BEEN LIKE THIS? This season would have been so much better if it stay doing episodes like this and "What's up Mommy Tiger?," "A Little Slice of Kevin," and "Hunter Heroici."


THIS IS SUPERNATURAL! Not the other stuff they have been showing half the time. No forced drama, no bad zoom ins, just the Winchesters-Being true Winchesters!!

Can we keep it like this? PLEASEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!

[AntiArbitrator]

Lemongrover, I am so glad you said that. Now, I feel like waiting up for the late viewing. I was going to let it record and go to bed, but to see a real hunter episode is worth going to bed late.

[lemongrover]

AntiArbitrator, it's good. At least I thought it was. There are a couple flaws, because they didn't address how come John said he came from a family of mechanics. Maybe that's his mom's side. But overall, I was willing to overlook that because it was just so good. The last time I liked an Adam Glass episode was "Mommy Dearest." But Henry Winchester is wonderful-way better than Grandpa Creepy Campbell and the Campbell soup clan. And the demon is so good!! I would put this demon on the same level as Azazel and little Lilith in terms of being a smart bad guy who is purely evil and well acted.

For me, this was one of those episodes that you know is going to be good just by watching the "Then and Now."

[AntiArbitrator]

Thank you. I am really looking forward to this.

[SoCal]

Loved it. The Winchester side of the family is certainly better than the Campbell side.

[leilan]

So I heard that this episode was going to have Grandpa Winchester in it. I thought about making a betting pool on how long it was before he died. I would have bet one episode. What do I win? While I loved this episode and thought it was really well-done, I still think the writers are really limiting themselves by introducing these cool characters and plotlines and then killing them. I know that on Supernatural, just because someone dies doesn't mean we won't see them again, but I just really hate all of these one-shot episodes! Azazel got two whole seasons, and one of the best parts of his arc was that he was this mysterious unknown, lurking in the shadows, and the boys never knew when he was going to strike. I really liked Abadon, I thought she was pretty bad-ass. And she lasted one episode.

That aside, I thought "As Time Goes By" was amazing. Throughout the whole thing, I kept thinking to myself, "Now this is the Supernatural that I know and love!" I shouted out loud when I saw the Then...Now sequence. I feel like it's been forever since we've seen a good one of those!

The dialogue was witty and hilarious... Henry asking if Sam and Dean had ever exhumed a body before. I was laughing so hard. And the looks on Sam and Dean's faces when Henry fell out of the closet... Priceless.

If they pursue this plotline, instead of letting it be another standalone episode, I think the show could be very, very good. If Sam and Dean explore the 'knowledge' side of their heritage.. Oh yeah. Except they can't ask that one alchemist guy, cuz he's dead. Dammit. But still. I've been wondering forever when they were going to clue us in more on John and Mary... ever since the episode where they went to heaven and met up with Ash, and he said that he still couldn't find them. Fingers crossed!

Also, hurray for Dean being like, eff that shit I'm saving Sammy. They're finally repairing their poor, broken relationship yaaay!

Unfortunately, I still am getting the sense that Sam is super one-dimensional this season. Dean was so awesome and Dean-ish, and Sam was just like blah.

I thought the way they took down Abadon was bad-ass, although I'm not sure how a devil's trap bullet in her brain would keep her from moving. I thought they had to be standing in a devil's trap. I also feel like they could have come up with a better plan for shooting her than sacrificing Henry to do it. Like, I don't know, shoot her from a distance? I just thought his death could've been pretty easily avoided. But also, woah! Demon that doesn't die from the knife?! I seriously hope they look into this more.

I kind of wish they had done this episode closer to the beginning of the season and built on its plotlines, instead of doing the whole 'Kevin and the demon tablet' shindig. I just find this so much more interesting!

So yeah. Awesome episode, I felt like we finally got a taste of the true Supernatural with this one, and god I hope they keep it up!

[Aeryn]

Well, this episode actually felt more like the Supernatural I used to watch. It wasn't great, but it was a hell of a lot better than the last few. Though, the actor who played Henry was terrible.

This time I really believed I was watching Sam and Dean, and not some emotionless clones. The script was crap, but at least I recognized what I was seeing.

It was nice seeing Alaina Huffman (from Stargate Universe) as Abadon. I like her a lot.

[SoCal]

You didn't like Henry? I liked him. I thought the way he played him, so straight, so 1950's, provided such a line of demarcation between him and the man his son grew up to be, and therefore, who Dean and Sam grew up to be was great.

To me it was the best episode of a somewhat disappointing season 8.

I agree that Dean and Sam seemed more like the boys we were used to in those better seasons.

[Aeryn]

No, I didn't like him. He talked like an android.

This was the first episode of the season that actually felt like Supernatural, though.

[Aeryn]

Jan 31, 2013 16:44:49 GMT -5 leilan said:

I've been wondering forever when they were going to clue us in more on John and Mary... ever since the episode where they went to heaven and met up with Ash, and he said that he still couldn't find them. Fingers crossed!

I bet they're in Hell. I want them to bring back Mary as a demon.

[SoCal]

You know, the writers have never made it clear where John and Mary went after they died.

You'd think they'd both be in heaven since heaven worked so hard to get them together, though.

[Aeryn]

Mary would make a great demon.

[novemberschild]

I really liked this one, I gave it a 4.

To me this felt like an episode from the first couple of seasons, It just had that feel to it, decent dialog, story moving along, Sam and Dean working together and getting along for the most part.

I like the Winchester side of the family so much better than the Campbell's, I never cared for Samuel and I never felt that he cared about Sam and Dean that much.

Henry Winchester was OK, and I liked that he wanted to make things right, I liked the devil trap's bullet and how they took out Abadon, although I wonder if she is truly gone for good.

I liked how adamant that Dean was about saving Sam and I love sensitive Sam. I would like to see more from Sam's perspective though, I am starting to wonder why he isn't given more to do.

[AntiArbitrator]

I just watched the episode on the computer because the CW ruined the late showing on Wednesday.

This is a great episode. I recall some people would say Sam was the "brains", and I always said Dean was smart too. Now we know the Winchester legacy. I think it is a fascinating legacy for the boys and now they are the keepers of all the spells and whatever never known or understood by man. Holy responsibility, Batman!

That bullet was awesome. The boys know how to carve a binding spell so that Abbadon cannot escape and Dean is going to slice and dice her anyway.

Posted by SoCal on Today at 12:16pm You didn't like Henry? I liked him. I thought the way he played him, so straight, so 1950's, provided such a line of demarcation between him and the man his son grew up to be, and therefore, who Dean and Sam grew up to be was great.

I agree Henry played a 1950s "Man of Letters" true to form. He was wonderful. Of course I would think that because I talk the same way he does.

Don't shoot the messenger but I knew they had to retcon something to make that fit. >>> In the diner in 'In The Beginning', Mr. D greeted Corporal John and held him in conversation. Before departing, Mr. D told John "Well, say hello to your old man for me." and John responded "You got it, Mr. D." I never heard anything about John having a stepfather, so I assumed they were talking about John's real father.<<<

[lemongrover]

Feb 1, 2013 20:20:38 GMT -5 novemberschild said:

I liked how adamant that Dean was about saving Sam and I love sensitive Sam. I would like to see more from Sam's perspective though, I am starting to wonder why he isn't given more to do.

I love this part of the episode about Dean too. But I have wondered for a long time why Sam's perspective isn't shown as much as Dean's. I wish they would give him more to do and more characters to interact with. I'm disappointed that once again Sam is cut off from the fight. It's been that way for several episodes in a row (8x09, 8x10, 8x11, and now, 8x12). I thought we were suppose to be getting more about Sam's point of view in the second half, but you can't have a point of view without dialogue and interaction with other characters. Dean's the one who has been interacting with other characters: Charlie and Henry.

I can't say that I'm surprised by it. Adam Glass isn't usually the strongest writer in terms of writing the Winchesters. He has repeatedly had Sam out of the action. The only exceptions have been "All Dogs Go to Heaven" and "Like a Virgin." The rest have either very poorly done so it's difficult to say the Winchesters did much of anything or really saved the day: "Two and Half Men," Defending Your Life," and "Adventures in Babysitting." The Garth episodes were Garth episodes with Sam and Dean. The only time he has had the Winchesters well done and doing something smart was in "Mommy Dearest" and this episode.

I think part of the reason why Glass can write Dean better is because he started on the show when Dean was Dean and Sam was soulless. (And judging by the continuity errors, he made in this episode, he hasn't watched all the episodes before he started working on the show.) However, Glass can write Sam, which he proves in this episode by writing Sam sensitive and understanding. What he seems to struggle with is writing Sam as a hunter and headstrong guy. He knew how to write soulless Sam, but he doesn't appear to have much understanding that Sam is a smart hunter who can come up with a quick plan. I don't think he knows how to balance badass hunter with kindness and understanding. Hence, why Dean at times appears to much more of a dick in certain moments to Henry, Krissy, Garth, and Castiel in Glass's episodes than he does under other writers. And why Sam was off at the end of "Southern Comforts." He wanted for Sam to stand up for himself, but instead came out with Sam looking more like a bully than someone telling Dean "enough is enough."

I think a lot of the writers who joined the show in the sixth or seventh seasons struggle balancing the conflicting sides of the brothers. And it is further complicated by the fact, they don't show enough of Sam's side of the story at the beginning of the season. They always want to wait to the second half of the season to address Sam's stuff, but then start running out of time. It comes back to the show's constant struggle with pacing. They want to keep Sam's side a secret or address it later or worse, they don't think it's something that needs to be dealt with, but then they can't reconcile the two parts. They can't make up for what they haven't shown by trying to slam in a quick explanation. Carver says that the fans need to wait and watch the whole season before judging the characters, but it's extremely difficult when you have no idea what is going on with one of the main characters and no real hints that that is going to change. (And you have had to suffer through forced drama made through OCC actions)

So, I don't know what to think. I don't think it is going to improve in the next episode due to the pictures I've seen, but it's a Ben Edlund episode. So, it's difficult to say what he is going to come up with, but after "Blood Brothers" in which Sam is just sitting in front of a laptop and dreaming about fixing ice machines, I'm starting to doubt him. (Which is sad considering he wrote some of the best episodes last season that included Sam very well and was one of the only writers to attempt to keep Sam's hallucinations.) I guess the important thing will be if Sam is allowed to do something other than talk to his laptop and yell on the phone when Dean's in a vampire nest.

Still, I don't expect for Sam to be given much more to do until around episode fifteen at the earliest, but it may be even later. I suspect it won't last long when we do get to see Sam's point of view, because the writers seem to have this default setting of Dean. They tend to think that they can only have fun with the character of Dean. They can't dress up Sam or Cas, because that wouldn't be funny when actually it would be fun for the audience. Sometimes, it's fun to watch the characters get taken out of their comfort zone for a laugh.

These writers write what's fun for them to write and not what's fun for the audience to watch. It's one of the worst things I think writers can do in terms of story telling. Because they get so caught up in the insults, soapy drama, and quick fun, they forget details, characterization, and start bad habits. It can be lazy storytelling like the fact that the brothers started questioning if Castiel was under someone's else control, but now, apparently, have forgotten about that for the time being. It's frustrating for the audience, but easier for the writers.