8.14 "Trial and Error" Discussion and Poll

[SoCal]

So Kevin is back in a new episode and he says he's found a way to "lock the door of Hell."

What are the tasks the boys must perform to make this happen? Will they succeed?

[AntiArbitrator]

Not again! It's coming on at 11 PM. Last time, it did not play correctly because the night crew played the wrong scenes. I did not know that was possible.

Why me?

[novemberschild]

Hi Anti , It's not just you, we have had another basketball game on and it doesn't come on for an hour here

I am tired of the basketball game being on, put them on a different night!!!!!

[lemongrover]

TAKE COVER!! IT'S TIME TO WELCOME BACK HATE TO FANDOM!! FAN-WARS STARTING AGAIN!! WONDERFUL!! Now, if you will let me, I would like to welcome hatred back first before I give my thoughts about the episode. (If you don't want to read so serious sarcasm, ranting, and foul language, please skip the next two paragraphs.)

Welcome back HATE!! It's so lovely to have you back. We've gone a whole twenty minutes without you! I didn't think we could survive! It's such a terrible time having two episodes that had very little to complain about. Now, you're back hatred and in full force!! I think we should have a game to celebrate your return!! Okay, every time you see some hate Sam because he got the closing Hell storyline take a shot, every time you see some use the term "snowflake" or "snowball" take a shot, and for every person you see who is going to quit watching the show because Dean always gets screw, take a shot and say hooray!! BINGE DRINKING!!

Oh, crap, if I thought fans HATED Sam for not looking for Dean in Purgatory, I'm certainly an idiot. Because compared to shit-storm coming over this episode, I think that well, that might have been love for Sam and not pure hatred. It's nasty out there, folks. I mean, it has to be since Sam is so utterly "selfish" in saving Dean's life and taking on the trials and let's not forget his "pride." My word, seriously, you're hoping for a character to get killed and failed because it's not your favorite and then you still want everyone to see you as not a bitch? Ugh, but I suppose you're right, because you're a fuck. WELCOME BACK HATE!

REVIEW:
I wish I could say that I enjoyed this episode, but I didn't. The family was annoying and obnoxious, but just knowing how the online fans were going to be if Sam was the one to kill the hell hound made the family seem rather pleasant. I hated some of dialogue at times. It just didn't seem like something anyone would said and you could tell the actors were struggling with it. But the Sam and Dean scenes were good. I love their speeches to each other-I didn't get to hear all of Sam's speech to Dean because someone came into my room. The episode wasn't their best episode and it was rather predictable in parts and cliche in others. I really love that Sam got to save Dean's life, but it came at a terrible price.

Here's where I'm torn. A part of me is thrilled about Sam having an actual story line this season that isn't Amelia related, but I was okay with that just being the Men of Letters. Now, that it is this, I don't know. I don't know if it's because I'm letting what the other fans are saying impact my judgment. Or if it's because I resent the hell out of the writers for making the trials a one person effort.

Then there is another part of me that is like why not Dean? Why go to all the trouble of Purgatory and making Dean to be the greatest hunter if you aren't going to put you're greatest hunter on the court? It doesn't make sense to me and I'm really resenting the hell out of the whole "greatest" speeches. Bad juju, man!

Honestly, I can't say I'm happy with the turn the show has made. And a large part of it is due to the fact that for once I didn't want to have to read Sam hate along with spoilers and reviews. I've pulled back a lot online and message boards, but I don't want to quit entirely. I wanted it to be Dean for two reasons (1) Dean needs a myth storyline and (2) to just shut EDGs up. It's not a deal breaker for me that it isn't Dean and I was hoping they would twist it around so both Sam and Dean killed the Hell hound and they had to face the trials together, but that would be too easy for the writers to do and get the fans to stop warring with each other. Why do that on a show about two brothers when you can have the crazy nasty one sided fans hoping that one of the brothers dies forever? There is a difference between riling up the fans for good story telling and riling up the fans to watch the blood bath. And I think these writers just like watching the blood bath.

Maybe the writers have something planned for Dean with the Angel Tablet, but for now, it's just yuck-especially when your favorite character has been mistreated all season and now, he gets to be boiled alive because the writers woke up and said "wait a minute, we're a show. . .um. . . about the supernatural. . . maybe. . . a relationship with a bitchy vet isn't. . .exactly. . .interesting. . .it's a soap opera. . . . Um. . . let's get Sam out of that mess and give him some really supernatural and badass to do and everyone will forget!"

I think all the enjoyment I would have had with storyline is going to be diminished because of how much the nasty stuff said about Sam gets to me. I'm rooting for him and loving him no matter what.

I don't know what this means for the show or where the show is going to go with this, but it's open a can of worms and it's time to duck and cover. Writers don't going wandering down the dark alley late at night, because there are a lot of pissed off extreme fans right now.

(And from what I have seen so far, I think it better for the writers to get mauled by all of Crowley's hell hounds instead of encounter an extreme Dean fan at the moment. They are out for blood and taking it out on the only think they can which is name calling Sam and calling him ass for everything he does. How someone can manage to make Sam out to be douche for being concerned about Kevin is beyond me. And the extreme fans are keeping it classy, only sort of attacking Jared's acting at the moment. They're probably saving that for the early morning hours. I have seen the fandom get pretty nasty before, but this is just downright childish and embarrassing. It's going to be long rest of the season. And I don't even want to think about season nine.)

What to do? This just kind of sucks when you love both brothers and just wish people didn't have to be so childish when it comes to their favorite not getting to do something. I'm not saying they shouldn't be upset that they didn't get the story, but saying you hate a character so much and making constant nonstop snide nasty comments just because it wasn't you're favorite, you need to stop and take breath.

The worst part is I know that if the situation was reversed, we wouldn't be in a blood bath over Dean. (But if it is Sam or Cas.) Dean has some of the nastiest extremists which sucks because there are so many incredibly nice and kind Dean fans who don't deserve to get dragged into the hating mess.

For me, this episode isn't an episode I feel comfortable voting on. It was not the greatest episode and I do feel like Sam is only getting this story because they fucked up so bad with Amelia they had to give it to Sam. The episode is just another case for how bad the writing has fallen this season. It just didn't feel like the episode flowed into how the last two episodes went. Sam was being set up as a Men of Letters and now? The Men of Letters had so much promise and let's face it, closing the gates of Hell in a show about demons was pretty much DOA from the moment Kevin said a tablet like that existed. Maybe it's a red herring? Because after being introduced to The Men of Letters I rather give up on this whole tablet business and GET BACK INTO THE FAMILY BUSINESS-HUNTING THINGS, SAVING PEOPLE. That's what this show is about, not trying to end Hell.

[AntiArbitrator]

Feb 13, 2013 23:13:54 GMT -5 lemongrover said:

For me, this episode isn't an episode I feel comfortable voting on. It was not the greatest episode and I do feel like Sam is only getting this story because they fucked up so bad with Amelia they had to give it to Sam. The episode is just another case for how bad the writing has fallen this season. It just didn't feel like the episode flowed into how the last two episodes went. Sam was being set up as a Men of Letters and now? The Men of Letters had so much promise and let's face it, closing the gates of Hell in a show about demons was pretty much DOA from the moment Kevin said a tablet like that existed. Maybe it's a red herring? Because after being introduced to The Men of Letters I rather give up on this whole tablet business and GET BACK INTO THE FAMILY BUSINESS-HUNTING THINGS, SAVING PEOPLE. That's what this show is about, not trying to end Hell.

Although I do not venture out to those other sites, I know the hate is out there because my friends like to quote some of it. I suffered enough hate on the CWL to last a lifetime. I like Sam/Jared and I have never understood how fans can dislike him.

I agree closing the gates of Hell will never happen on Supernatural, but I guess they will have fun trying. The MOL story line does sound like the focus would be on hunting.

I enjoyed the contrast between Dean and Sam in the episode. The series began with them having opposite personalities and it worked. I'm glad their personalities are shining through again. Sam was concerned for Kevin while Dean was "work through the pain", but they carry it off in an amusing way.

I was not expecting the emotional scene between Sam and Dean but it was something that needed to be done to seal their bond that has been shattered too many times. I want them to be of like minds instead of fighting.

[SoCal]

Wow, some people are WAY too involved in a televison show's characters.

I enjoyed the episode for the most part although the Dean "nesting" seemed a little contrived. After all, he had a year with Lisa in a house that had nice beds and no funky smells. And he had a real kitchen in both Lisa's and Bobby's houses. Never noticed him cooking before (except the quick shot of scrambled eggs for Ben). And his amazement at the number and kind of tomatoes in the grocery store? You mean he's never been grocery shopping before? Remember Dean and Sam at that farmer's market when Sam was buying vegetables?

Kevin is becoming more interesting and I'm glad they're not bringing his mother back to annoy us (along with Amelia).

Why didn't Crowley know they killed one of his hell hounds? When did Sam manage to dip some glasses in holy fire?

Dean and Sam's constant back and forth about wanting to live and sacrificing themselves is getting just a little old. Shouldn't they have thrashed that all out by now?

All that being said, it was a pretty good episode, although I hated the "Beverly Hillbillies." They were in no way sympathetic or really necessary to the story.

Looking forward to seeing the next two "trials" that Sam is going to have to undergo.

[evilsquirre1]

I loved this episode!!! I give it a soild 5 stars. Dean getting his own room and putting the picture of his mom up was so special. Dean making Sam a hamburger. So now for the record Dean is a hot guy that can fix cars, hunt, and cook.

I loved Sam telling Dean he's a genuis and the best hunter Sam has ever seen. Also I'm glad that Sam refused to let Dean do the trials. He is right Dean thinks of these trials as something that will lead to his death and he has accepted that. Sam wants to live, it should be him.

Both boys in glasses, I do like the Clark Kent look on Dean. Sam looked damn good to. That family was pretty entertaining to everyone thinking that other one had made a demon deal. Shoot even Kevin eating hot dogs was entertaining. I'm worried about my over achieving god rock reader, I hope he will be okay. I love the Dean suggested he eat a salad. I wonder if the hot dog eating was a shout out to Takeru Kobayashi who was the hot dog eating champ. This season started out slow and not good. But it has improved so much, I love this new path.

[AntiArbitrator]

SoCal, I would hate to see your review if you hated the episode. Technically Dean did not have his own room at Lisa's and it's awkward cooking in someone else's kitchen. Ah, you are an independent woman. Having his own room means he can do exactly what he did, decorate it any way he wanted. Imagine Lisa's reaction if he put guns on the wall. When he was living with others, they could kick him out, but for right now, he answers to no one. I love it!

I agree the episodes are improving and I look forward to the next one too.

[anicat]

LOVED SO MUCH!!!!

I think I used up all my words last night on Twitter, I have none left.

[SoCal]

Feb 14, 2013 16:57:06 GMT -5 AntiArbitrator said:

SoCal, I would hate to see your review if you hated the episode. Technically Dean did not have his own room at Lisa's and it's awkward cooking in someone else's kitchen. Ah, you are an independent woman. Having his own room means he can do exactly what he did, decorate it any way he wanted. Imagine Lisa's reaction if he put guns on the wall. When he was living with others, they could kick him out, but for right now, he answers to no one. I love it!

I agree the episodes are improving and I look forward to the next one too.

I didn't think I sounded that harsh.

I liked much of the episode, but when I see things that don't seem to make sense, or a character act OUT of character, I have to point it out.

I hope, though, that I am willing to admit when someone else has a better point or shows me where I'm wrong.

That doesn't happen much, however!

[AntiArbitrator]

^^^ I know!

Anicat! Hello Glad you loved it.

[anicat]

Feb 14, 2013 17:52:14 GMT -5 AntiArbitrator said:

^^^ I know!

Anicat! Hello Glad you loved it.

Hey back!

I think this episode was a direct link back to the Good Ole Days of Kripke. The humor mixed in just the right amount with threat and scare. The brothers being brothers, and not the awkward-written interactions of the past S06/07 seasons. Drama and mission, and PRAISE ALL THE GODS THAT ARE some actual character advancement.

I am betting that the ratings for this episode will be fantastic. Live+DVR numbers will come in, and the CW will see that they made the right call in announcing a pick-up for S09. Our little-show-that-could can keep right on going, given the right showrunner with an actual vision, and the gut-feeling understanding of who the characters are and what the series is about. All hail JC!!!! Me love him so much.

[novemberschild]

I really liked this one and gave it a 4, there were so many things that I liked and a few that made you wonder, but overall I thought it was almost better than anything in S7, and to be honest I think S8 is starting to make me a bit spoiled in how it has come back this year.

I loved how childlike and happy Dean was to have his own room, he never really had his own before, he always shared with Sam and he and Lisa shared one, but this one is really his. I liked the little smile Sam gave when he looked at Dean's room, now we need to see Sam's room.
It makes sense that Dean can cook, he took care of Sam when they were little and he cooked in S6 (6.1) so I am glad to see him learning to claim a room and cook.

I was happy to see Sam be more than wall paper again, we had caring Sam back and I was happy to see him care about Kevin and Dean. He tries hard to reach out to Kevin and to explain things to Dean so that Dean understands that there could be more to life other than dying.
I didn't care about the family in this one, but I knew we weren't meant to care about them. I did like Ellie though, she had sass and she and Dean had some chemistry together, it was nice to see that side of Dean again.
SoCal - When Dean dipped the glasses, he dipped 2 pairs,so I would guess that Dean gave one pair to Sam.

I liked the special effects of the hell hounds, it was nice to finally see one , first time in 8 years.
I liked the brother moments we had in this one, each brother having a chance to tell the other one that they want each other to live and to have a chance at something better. Now do I think this means rainbows and puppies for the guys, NO, but I am just enjoying the fact that they have come so far from the beginning of the season where they were so at odds, and now they seem more like they are on the same page.

There were a few things that were off, like why would an old man go out hunting in the night?
and at the end of S7 Kevin says he is a vegan, yet he is eating hot dogs in this episode? Maybe Garth doesn't have lot of time to buy lots of groceries?
It didn't matter to me what brother got to do the trials, I am aware that only one can do the trial, but I bet Dean will find a way to be a big help to his little brother.

Now, I lurked on the old CWL for the last year and saw a lot of the hate and now when I go to a few different sites I see more of the hate. I just find it so sad that people have to hate on fictional TV characters and time how much each one is on screen and if one gets to do this, it shuts the other one out and vice versa.

I find it maddening, I understand that not everyone watches for the same reasons and not everyone is going to like everything that we see or hear on the show, but WE still have our SHOW, it is still on! Can't we just be happy that we have it, when so many other that I/we have liked have come and gone?

[AntiArbitrator]

Hi November You and I are on the same page on this episode. Always happy to read your analysis and I do remember Dean dipping two pairs of glasses. The old man was drunk, but I don't know if the young woman was drunk. I did not think about Kevin being a vegan so I missed the significance of the hot dogs when viewing that scene. Thanks for the reminder; it shows the terrible toll Kevin's task is taking on him.

[SoCal]

November - Really? I guess I missed the part where Dean dipped two pairs of eye glasses. I'm glad that was the case and that the writers weren't being sloppy.

[novemberschild]

Hi , here is a reason I try and watch all the episodes at least three times before I post comments.

I don't want to give my gut reaction, I want time to think about the episode and see if my feelings change on it.
I also have to watch again to pick up what I might have missed the first time, and I often do. I sometimes read others comments and think I missed that part.

[anicat]

Dean did toast two glasses in the holy fire.

Osric said on twitter the hotdogs were tofu dogs. So Kevin didn't abandon his vegan life. I guess it would have helped if they showed the package so their tofu status could have been seen and not assumed. Art department, get busy! Or maybe they had made up a wrapper, but the camera shot didn't include the wider background to show it. Ah well.

[novemberschild]

I have a question and i hope someone else can help with it.
I watched the episode again over the weekend and I am wondering where the part of only one person can do the trials came from?

Kevin never said only one person can do it, and at the end Sam told Dean the spell wouldn't work for him because he didn't kill the hell hound. Then Sam said he would do the rest of the trials, but to me that doesn't exclude Dean from helping in a mighty big way, or knowing Dean as we do, it doesn't keep him from doing them either. Dean has been known to do underhanded stuff to get the results he wants.

But I don't remember or didn't see in the episode where it says only one person has to do all three trials.

Anyone?

[waggy3015]

Feb 18, 2013 12:58:53 GMT -5 novemberschild said:

I have a question and i hope someone else can help with it.
I watched the episode again over the weekend and I am wondering where the part of only one person can do the trials came from?

Kevin never said only one person can do it, and at the end Sam told Dean the spell wouldn't work for him because he didn't kill the hell hound. Then Sam said he would do the rest of the trials, but to me that doesn't exclude Dean from helping in a mighty big way, or knowing Dean as we do, it doesn't keep him from doing them either. Dean has been known to do underhanded stuff to get the results he wants.

But I don't remember or didn't see in the episode where it says only one person has to do all three trials.

Anyone?

I askd your question on another forum I frequent and this is what I got in response:

One person said it wasn't said allowed, but just implied.

Another person suggested that it was something that Kevin read. They weren't sure of exact words, but something like: "The person who is to complete the tasks must kill the hellhound and bathe in it's blood."

If the wording's correct, then, to me at least, it does imply that only 1 person can complete all 3 trials.

All that being said, I do believe that Dean will help Sammy with the trials as much as he can, up until the final step.