8.23 Sacrifice - Supernatural DISCUSSION

[AntiArbitrator]

WHAT MUST SAM, DEAN AND CASTIEL SACRIFICE TO FOREVER SEAL HELL? — With Crowley (guest star Mark Sheppard) poised to undo all the good they’ve ever done as hunters, Sam and Dean find themselves cornered. But with Kevin’s (guest star Osric Chau) help, the Winchester brothers bound into one last play against The Demon King. Metatron (guest star Curtis Armstrong) initiates a plan with Castiel to take on Naomi (guest star Amanda Tapping) and the bureaucracy of Heaven. Alaina Huffman and Kim Rhodes also guest star. Phil Sgriccia directed the episode written by Jeremy Carver.

[SoCal]

I liked the episode, although there was a lot in it, including some extremely last minute surprises. So God's scribe is a liar and a killer? And now he's stolen Castiel's grace leaving him "human" like Anna was?

And Sam's trials would have done nothing but kill him? Loved how Dean shut him up with......nothing I've done hasn't been with you first in my mind.

What happens with Crowley? And the demon who put her head back on?

Did Sheriff Mills die?

So, ALL the angels fall to earth? What does that mean for season 9? Will they all be pissed off with Dean and Sam or will Metatron be the focus of their wrath?

It's gonna be a long summer.

I gave it a 4.

[AntiArbitrator]

SoCal I am so glad you are commenting.

---

I think the episode was well done. It kept me guessing what was going to happen.

If I was not such an avid Castiel fan, I would be thrilled. But Castiel is my favorite character on the show and I am not happy that his angel powers were removed.

In 8.22, I did not understand that the killing of Nephilim was part of a trial like Sam was going through. Since Metatron told Castiel he needed to perform trials, I don't understand why anyone would be angry with Castiel.

Jody on a date with Rodrick!Crowley was especially clever and cruel.

I like the 666 phone number.

I like those mile-long contracts that Crowley presents.

The cupid couple was sooo CW.

Naomi could not be trusted. 50/50 chance she was telling them the right thing to do, so flip a coin.

One blow from Dean and Crowley gave up the fight. Those Winchesters hit hard.

St. Dean's suggestions for Sam's confession: Ruby, killing Lillith, losing your soul, letting Lucifer out, not looking for me when I went to Purgatory...for starters.

Castiel was mean brutally truthful to poor motherless Kevin.

When will they learn to not leave a demon alone in a room?

Crowley really nailed the purification scenes and he even had tears in his eyes. Will he revert?

The falling angel scene was magnificent.

Did Sheriff Mills die?

I have the impression she was saved just in time.

There are many ways season 9 can take shape. I am looking forward to Tuesdays.

[AntiArbitrator]

Watching episode again - for the sheer pleasure of it.

I just realized we had a meta moment! When Castiel asked Dean if he thought it was wise he should be drinking on the job, Dean responded "What show have you been watching?" I love Cas' expression.

[SoCal]

AA

Supernatural is moving to Tuesdays? Well, at least there are currently no other programs I watch on Tuesday nights.

Agreed......the falling angels were magnificent.

Loved it when Dean sneaked the demon cuffs onto Crowley and how he punched him back HARD, saying he could "...do this all day because, DAMN, it felt good." That's the smart, tough Dean we all came to love way back in season 1.

[novemberschild]

I gave this a 4 for very good, I have watched 4 times and see a little more every time. I think we need more writers like Edlund, Carver, and Robbie Thompson on this show, please get rid of Adam Glass an that Eugenie person, or send them back to writing school.

I hope they did not kill off Jody, they could have finished that one little scene for us, She needs to be back more often, she would add a lot to the show.
I thought the contract scene with Crowley was nicely done, Crowley should never let a Winchester get close to him, Sam and Dean both punched him, and made him pay for his arrogance that he thought he could beat the Winchesters.

Cas and Metatron- I thought there was something not right about Metatron, I see that worked out, I was wanting to hope that Cas could have found one angel that he could have trusted. Cas was mighty angry at Kevin, I wish we would see that side of Cas more often, I found that to be a great reminder of his abilities and what he is capable of.
I am wondering if Cas will retain any of his abilities and what kind of changes are in store for him next season. Please don't let him be the butt of jokes again, let him be able to learn and become a valuable ally of the guys.
I was happy to see Kevin live at the end, I was worried that he would be killed. They need to keep him at the MOL next season.

I loved all the Sam and Dean scenes but one, where Dean mentions what Sam should ask forgiveness for, Dean, grow up and let some of it go, now. I had saw both guys maturing and growing up some this season and then the last 2 episodes, they fell back.

Sam and Dean were a united front, they both knew what the other had to do, they supported each other thru it, and in the end that bond between them was what got them thru. I thought Jensen and Jared were both so good in this. I don't think Jared gets enough credit for his acting, but he nailed it in this.
Mark S. was also very good, the scene where he called Sam by his name and he had tears running down his cheeks was stunning.
I was also wondering because I couldn't really tell, but the last scene with Cas, were there tears in his eyes?
Actually if you think about it, all 4 guys (Sam, Dean, Cas, and Crowley) may have had tears in their eyes.

I do wonder what we will be in for next year and how the landscape will change for the guys.

[AntiArbitrator]

I can't tell if there were tears, but all of them had an expression of awe.

When the angels were falling, Dean said "No, Cas." which means Cas is going to get blamed even though he did not voluntarily provide the final ingredient for the spell.

On Twitter:
"I thought the gay couple in the bar was cute."

Response: "Which one of the gay couples?"

[SoCal]

I want to know what was happening to Sam? After the HUG, he suddenly cried out in pain and Dean semi-carried him out of the church to the car. What's going on with him?

AA....after all the messes Cas has caused, it's not surprising to see Dean initially think he had something to do with the angels falling. I wonder if Cas (in his now "limp" state) remembers Dean and Sam? Remember Anna didn't remember she was an angel until the boys got to her.

Ah Naomi, we may have misjudged you. But you were a bit of a snake and you still had Cas kill a fellow angel and beat the crap out of Dean.

Metatron....I was poised to like you, but now I see you are just as evil an angel as Crowley is a demon. I hope you die early in season 9.

As for Crowley...since he didn't get the 8th shot of blood, does that mean he reverts back to his old ways? Will he be less of a threat? If all the angels have fallen out of heaven, does that mean Hell rules? Will Abedon? spelling) take over as king(queen) of Hell? What will they be up to to keep the gates of Hell from being closed? Is that really even possible or was it all a fiction that Metatron used to "escape?"

It's gonna be a long summer. Let the speculation begin!!

[Deleted]

This show hates Sam. I've accepted it. The whole speech about not being good enough was so stupid.

I was really hoping to see Meg back but I guess she's gone for good. I hope Crowley is good. His whole act is so old now...

[AntiArbitrator]

May 18, 2013 18:23:44 GMT -5 @smallvillian0 said:

This show hates Sam. I've accepted it. The whole speech about not being good enough was so stupid.

I was really hoping to see Meg back but I guess she's gone for good. I hope Crowley is good. His whole act is so old now...

When I saw your Meg avatar, I thought you might either want Meg to be the third trial or that you knew something from spoilers. I was hoping Meg would be back, but curing Crowley was a surprise.

[AntiArbitrator]

May 18, 2013 11:52:19 GMT -5 SoCal said:

I want to know what was happening to Sam? After the HUG, he suddenly cried out in pain and Dean semi-carried him out of the church to the car. What's going on with him?

AA....after all the messes Cas has caused, it's not surprising to see Dean initially think he had something to do with the angels falling. I wonder if Cas (in his now "limp" state) remembers Dean and Sam? Remember Anna didn't remember she was an angel until the boys got to her.

Ah Naomi, we may have misjudged you. But you were a bit of a snake and you still had Cas kill a fellow angel and beat the crap out of Dean.

Metatron....I was poised to like you, but now I see you are just as evil an angel as Crowley is a demon. I hope you die early in season 9.

As for Crowley...since he didn't get the 8th shot of blood, does that mean he reverts back to his old ways? Will he be less of a threat? If all the angels have fallen out of heaven, does that mean Hell rules? Will Abedon? spelling) take over as king(queen) of Hell? What will they be up to to keep the gates of Hell from being closed? Is that really even possible or was it all a fiction that Metatron used to "escape?"

It's gonna be a long summer. Let the speculation begin!!

Good question about Sam. I was so caught up in seeing the bunker lights go haywire and seeing the falling angels that I forgot Sam continued to have a reaction from the trials.

Cas has been called “junkless” but I swear “limp” sounds worse. Oh, I am sure he remembers Dean and Sam. Anna started over as an embryo, but her memory came back when Heaven and Hell were trying to kill her. Please don’t make Castiel wander along the beach and pick up stray women again.

I was not at all moved by Naomi’s fox-hole attempt at reconciliation. (Loving her in Stargate does not give her a pass – just saying.)

I’m hoping Sam is pure enough to go to Heaven, locate Metatron, and boot him out.

I also want to know what will become of Crowley. If he is weak, Abbadon will take over and she has no humor. I think the messages on the tablet were God’s words. Kevin said he could not find anything on the tablet about killing the Nephilim or Cupid’s bow. Kevin should keep reading and find a way to restore things to normal.

[SoCal]

May 18, 2013 18:23:44 GMT -5 @smallvillian0 said:

This show hates Sam. I've accepted it. The whole speech about not being good enough was so stupid.

This show hates Sam? What show are you watching?

[anicat]

I enjoy seeing the scenes from other people's perspectives.

My first interpretation when Dean was looking up at the Falling angels and said "No, Cas" was that he was afraid that Cas had shut down Heaven and was Falling too. Like, burning-comet style like the others. It's going to be a long Hellatus, waiting for the S09 TFW group catching-up and debrief.

I think Cas still has his memories, even if not much else. The way he was walking was someone with purpose, not a confused stumbling around in a "who am I? where am I?" way.

[novemberschild]

Hi Anicat , I believe that Cas still has his memories, I was telling someone that after Cas woke up in the forest that he started walking and then running because he needed to get some where. If he didn't know who he was, he would have walked and been looking around, as you say confused looking. I don't like the term limp either

I don't think the show hates Sam, I think that some of the writers just don't know how to write him. I think Jared is a better actor than people give him credit for. I also think that Sam was in pain and was sick because of all the stuff (God stuff?) that was inside him didn't have an outlet and it couldn't get out of him.

I am interested in what condition Crowley will be in now, since his transformation is incomplete.

[Deleted]

May 18, 2013 20:23:30 GMT -5 AntiArbitrator said:

May 18, 2013 18:23:44 GMT -5 @smallvillian0 said:

This show hates Sam. I've accepted it. The whole speech about not being good enough was so stupid.

I was really hoping to see Meg back but I guess she's gone for good. I hope Crowley is good. His whole act is so old now...

When I saw your Meg avatar, I thought you might either want Meg to be the third trial or that you knew something from spoilers. I was hoping Meg would be back, but curing Crowley was a surprise.

I really wanted her to be the third trial.

[Deleted]

May 18, 2013 21:18:54 GMT -5 SoCal said:

May 18, 2013 18:23:44 GMT -5 @smallvillian0 said:

This show hates Sam. I've accepted it. The whole speech about not being good enough was so stupid.

This show hates Sam? What show are you watching?

::)Supernatural duh. Dean is always portrayed as the hero. They (even minor crappy characters) never stop mentioning all of the "supposed" bad things Sam has done.

[AntiArbitrator]

The only time Naomi was okay was when Dean believed her. And, of course, Cas was wrong - again. Dean has a knack for being always right.

---

Random thought - Zachariah was right.

ZACHARIAH: *** Hell, they'd rather save each other's sweet bacon than save the planet. _PONR

[evilsquirre1]

I really enjoyed this episode I thought it was a great set up of Season nine. Think if all the angels on earth without there grace. The general public will know that Supernatural beings walk the earth. I also wonder if the blood injections will have a lasting impact on Crowley. What about the impact the trials had on Sam will he ever be the same.

Also the power struggle between Abaddon and Crowley will prove interesting. How will Castiel cope with being tricked and used by Metatron to make all angels fall. Sure Metatron put a drill in Naomi but did he really kill her or just disable her? With all that is happening in Heaven I'm wondering if God will make his will know at any point. Season Nine should be interesting.

[AntiArbitrator]

Human!Castiel



Falling Angel



What happened to the flaming wings?