ravanne
Supernatural Fight Club
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Post by ravanne on Feb 13, 2012 21:02:31 GMT -5
Yay!! I've missed you! ![]() ![]() ETA: This is itsNapTime, btw. I've done a spotty job of getting that across and especially given your absence, I figured there was a chance you had no idea who I was. Awww... I missed you too! I tried to keep the same handle so people would recognize me. Let my friends know me and my enemies fear me!  |
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Post by pentadactyl on Feb 13, 2012 21:11:30 GMT -5
Yay!! I've missed you! ![]() ![]() ETA: This is itsNapTime, btw. I've done a spotty job of getting that across and especially given your absence, I figured there was a chance you had no idea who I was. Awww... I missed you too! I tried to keep the same handle so people would recognize me. Let my friends know me and my enemies fear me! ![]() I'd been using pentadactyl in a few places already. So when CWL shut down, I figured it was a good time to standardize that. Now (afaik) every pentadactyl out there on SPN related sites is me. |
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Post by benson35 on Feb 13, 2012 21:49:04 GMT -5
Ravanne, its so good to hear from you again. I was just looking at your name on twitter and wondering where you ended up.
Now we can get some theories and disusssions going. Did you see the latest spoilers.
E!ONLINE SPOILER:
Did you ever wish you could date Sam and Dean?! Well apparently some lucky woman has, because we're going to meet a woman in her late 30s who is an old flame of both of them. Our prediction: She has a pact with the devil.
I've wanted this ever since Bella lol. I think this is going to be very cute. I hope she isn't a demon...
Late 30's so she's older than Dean and much older than Sam. I wonder how old they both were. Interesting. I wonder which eppy this will be in.
Flash back eppy this week...we have the ring back?
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Post by zenezie on Feb 13, 2012 22:44:40 GMT -5
Awww... I missed you too! I tried to keep the same handle so people would recognize me. Let my friends know me and my enemies fear me! ![]() So glad to see you here, I always admired your in-depth posts that is much feared by your enemies  Welcome! |
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spoilerwolf
Supernatural Fight Club
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Post by spoilerwolf on Feb 14, 2012 2:11:33 GMT -5
Howdy Spoiler! ![]() I see some of our "friends" from CW are here. This should be entertaining... Friends and plenty of the opposite  It'll be interesting, to be sure!  |
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Post by chloekins on Feb 14, 2012 4:39:37 GMT -5
Howdy Ravanne! I've really missed your great posts. We need to get some good discussions going.
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Lostcause
Supernatural Fight Club
Don't be economic girlie men!
Posts: 1,273
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Post by Lostcause on Feb 14, 2012 4:58:02 GMT -5
Ravanne, its so good to hear from you again. I was just looking at your name on twitter and wondering where you ended up. Now we can get some theories and disusssions going. Did you see the latest spoilers. E!ONLINE SPOILER:
Did you ever wish you could date Sam and Dean?! Well apparently some lucky woman has, because we're going to meet a woman in her late 30s who is an old flame of both of them. Our prediction: She has a pact with the devil.I've wanted this ever since Bella lol. I think this is going to be very cute. I hope she isn't a demon... Late 30's so she's older than Dean and much older than Sam. I wonder how old they both were. Interesting. I wonder which eppy this will be in. Flash back eppy this week...we have the ring back? It should be Bela, I shall put a curse on the writing staff for not making it Bela... That being said! Maybe it's an old babysitter? You know Dean would have done the babysitter! |
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ravanne
Supernatural Fight Club
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Posts: 65
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Post by ravanne on Feb 14, 2012 13:17:42 GMT -5
Howdy Ravanne! I've really missed your great posts. We need to get some good discussions going. Aww, thanks! ![]() So let's not dawdle and let me get started here! *cracks knuckles* First of all, a small rant is in order. The very fact that they are bringing back the winged rat, even on a limited basis is enough to raise my blood pressure. There is absolutely no reason to do so except to placate the whining throngs of emotionally stunted "fans" who are still complaining that "their god" did not get a proper send off. Personally, I found Castiel's end - melting into a puddle of black goo - highly appropriate given the harm that it had caused. Castiel may have done some good things in the time that we knew it, but those good things paled in comparison to the enormous harm that it did. And that is not even when you take into account the horrific acts that it perpetrated while in possession of the souls that it stole from Purgatory. Castiel did not deserve the hero's farewell that Bobby got because Castiel did nothing to earn it. Not in a very long while. The fact that Castiel is returning to the show at the point where Sam's sanity has completely fractured is especially sickening to me. All of the spoilers are indicating that Dean's focus is going to be on that thing and not on the brother that is suffering as a direct result of what Castiel did. Dean is supposed to be torn about what to do about Castiel. Excuse me? Torn? What the flying blue blazes should Dean be torn about? That... thing... destroyed Sam's sanity as leverage to keep Dean from getting in its way. Any good that it might have done in the time that Dean knew it was immediately negated as far as I'm concerned by that act. Castiel tried to steal enormous power for itself and was corrupted in the process. It worked with and protected Crowley. It argued in favor of leaving Sam's soul in Lucifer's cage to be tortured because Sam without his soul was just too damn useful for it to give up. It slaughtered its own siblings in heaven and murdered numerous humans that it found to be hyprocits. Any single one of those act would warrant a judicious ganking without an instant's hesitation. But hurting Sam in a way that Sam will never recover from? What angers me most about Castiel's continued taint on the show is what it makes of Dean. The man who would kill whoever harmed his brother without a second thought is now being made into a weak, indecisive facsimile of the man we met in season one. Castiel pulled Dean out of Hell? Great. But he hurt Sam in ways that Dean can barely bring himself to understand. That should have been the event horizon from which there is no forgiveness possible. That Dean is being made to feel conflict over the being that manipulated and harmed his brother so grievously is what makes me even more angry. It used to be Dean and Sam vs all comers. Now it's Dean wringing his hands over that creature while Sam is left unable to tell reality from hallucination. Castiel's time on the show is done. That part of the storyline is wrapped up and revisiting it does no good at all. Short of Dean putting it down like a rabid dog (and please... no Old Yeller scene), no good can come of this. The ECGs and Destial freaks can whine and cry all they want, but Castiel's "profound bond" with Dean was shattered the instant Castiel harmed Sam. It deserves no further consideration or examination than its already been on the receiving end of. Whew.... that feels good to get off my chest! ![]() |
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Post by chloekins on Feb 14, 2012 14:50:06 GMT -5
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Post by benson35 on Feb 14, 2012 16:13:48 GMT -5
First of all, a small rant is in order. There is absolutely no reason to do so except to placate the whining throngs of emotionally stunted "fans" Personally, I found Castiel's end - melting into a puddle of black goo - highly appropriate given the harm that it had caused. Oh Ravanne its good to have you back. :heart: :heart: There seems to be one flaw in your argument when it seems to come to tptb in SPN at this point in time.....YOU MAKE COMPLETE SENSE!!! How the writers have come to the conclusion that this is a good thing to bring this IT back then like you said there is only two ways this can go....shoot him down like a dog...but why would you bring him back if that is the case because he just slows down the story...or...forget everything he's done like they always have..after all that seems to be his s/l....beat, degrade and hurt S&D and then have them thankyou for helping them??? Why why why...would they want to placate this part of this fandom I will never know. This is what makes me furious also. Its kind of like the DB storyline...when it started to hit its stride in season 4 we go OTHOAP..were there was 5 minutes on Sam's DB, 5 minutes with Dean (which kind of kick started him being the doormat he became with Castiel) and 30 minutes on why the angels were doing what they were doing. Hangon when did this become about the angels s/l. This is what makes me made also...Dean gets the short end of the stick because then HIS story revolves around Castiel...its never his own and never as compelling as Sams lets say who is going through personal stuff. The fact that they don't allow Dean to deal with Sam before anyone else shows me that they have lost the plot. Again Ravanne....so glad your back to your best. Rant away.! |
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ravanne
Supernatural Fight Club
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Posts: 65
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Post by ravanne on Feb 14, 2012 16:27:18 GMT -5
One of the big things I'm finding wrong about this season is the pod Dean we've been substituted for the kick ass Dean of seasons 1-3 who vowed to kill anyone who hurt his brother. It's so depressing to see this pod Dean who sits around feeling sorry for himself, boohooing about what a crappy life he's had, while Sam who is silently falling apart is trying his best to best supportive of Dean and keeps his problems to himself so he won't burden Dean with them. I'm dreading ep 17 so much because I'm so afraid that this pod Dean will be further destroyed by showing more concern for the winged rat than for his own brother who has finally lost his tenuous hold on reality and is going insane. The things Jensen said at the con filled me with fear about where they're going to go with this horrible character. Dean does seem completely oblivious right now to everything that's going on with Sam. I know that Sam is doing everything possible to hang onto his sanity and is hiding his problems from Dean, but let's face it... A few years ago Dean would have noticed the least little thing wrong with Sam, no matter how much Sam tried to hide it. Dean was acutely aware of every sniffle or hurt feeling. Now? Short of bleeding out all over the Impala, Dean notices nothing. He's so caught up in his own pain that he's missing the very clear signs that things are not all right with Sam. But then again, there was also a time when Dean actually worried about things because of how the impacted Sam. He worried over the YED deal and the Special Children issue because of what it meant for Sam. Now all the horrible things that have happened to Sam are only important because of how they impact Dean. Sam being damaged by Castiel was an issue because it was yet another thing weighing down on Dean. The fact that Sam was being driven insane by having Lucifer stuck in his skull, reminding Sam of everything he endured in the cage was secondary to it being another thing Dean felt bad about. And it made me angry with Dean because I wanted to slap him upside the head and tell him to get over himself. I don't want to be angry with Dean because I love the guy and I know what he's been through, but it was painful to see him so shortsighted about what was happening around him. It is infuriating that Dean is expected to drop everything as soon as Castiel is back in the picture. Castiel had been the cause of so much suffering to both him and Sam and for Dean to show him concern, while Sam has been falling apart right before his eyes and we get nothing from Dean is really rubbing salt in the wounds. The show has been trying to force the "profound bond" so badly that it's destroyed Dean in the process. The fact that Dean apparently is unable to help Sam beyond having Sam locked away for his own good (after Sam sacrificed his soul to save the world and was left damaged due to Castiel's meddling), but will drop everything because Castiel's nut is cracked just leaves an awful taste in my mouth. It's things like this when I almost wish the Destiel loons would get their wish and the two of them can ride off into the sunset together while Sam gets paired up with someone useful and who actually sees past the tip of her own nose. Sheriff Mills is looking awfully good right about now. |
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Post by chloekins on Feb 14, 2012 17:36:37 GMT -5
One of the big things I'm finding wrong about this season is the pod Dean we've been substituted for the kick ass Dean of seasons 1-3 who vowed to kill anyone who hurt his brother. It's so depressing to see this pod Dean who sits around feeling sorry for himself, boohooing about what a crappy life he's had, while Sam who is silently falling apart is trying his best to best supportive of Dean and keeps his problems to himself so he won't burden Dean with them. I'm dreading ep 17 so much because I'm so afraid that this pod Dean will be further destroyed by showing more concern for the winged rat than for his own brother who has finally lost his tenuous hold on reality and is going insane. The things Jensen said at the con filled me with fear about where they're going to go with this horrible character. Dean does seem completely oblivious right now to everything that's going on with Sam. I know that Sam is doing everything possible to hang onto his sanity and is hiding his problems from Dean, but let's face it... A few years ago Dean would have noticed the least little thing wrong with Sam, no matter how much Sam tried to hide it. Dean was acutely aware of every sniffle or hurt feeling. Now? Short of bleeding out all over the Impala, Dean notices nothing. He's so caught up in his own pain that he's missing the very clear signs that things are not all right with Sam. But then again, there was also a time when Dean actually worried about things because of how the impacted Sam. He worried over the YED deal and the Special Children issue because of what it meant for Sam. Now all the horrible things that have happened to Sam are only important because of how they impact Dean. Sam being damaged by Castiel was an issue because it was yet another thing weighing down on Dean. The fact that Sam was being driven insane by having Lucifer stuck in his skull, reminding Sam of everything he endured in the cage was secondary to it being another thing Dean felt bad about. And it made me angry with Dean because I wanted to slap him upside the head and tell him to get over himself. I don't want to be angry with Dean because I love the guy and I know what he's been through, but it was painful to see him so shortsighted about what was happening around him. It is infuriating that Dean is expected to drop everything as soon as Castiel is back in the picture. Castiel had been the cause of so much suffering to both him and Sam and for Dean to show him concern, while Sam has been falling apart right before his eyes and we get nothing from Dean is really rubbing salt in the wounds. The show has been trying to force the "profound bond" so badly that it's destroyed Dean in the process. The fact that Dean apparently is unable to help Sam beyond having Sam locked away for his own good (after Sam sacrificed his soul to save the world and was left damaged due to Castiel's meddling), but will drop everything because Castiel's nut is cracked just leaves an awful taste in my mouth. It's things like this when I almost wish the Destiel loons would get their wish and the two of them can ride off into the sunset together while Sam gets paired up with someone useful and who actually sees past the tip of her own nose. Sheriff Mills is looking awfully good right about now. Yes, Yes, Yes. You always say it perfectly. I'm so afraid we're going to see Dean take off leaving Sam alone in the asylum while he focuses his attention on the foul one. I'm really worried we're going to get that scene where he returns the trench. After all the horrible things It's done to Sam and Dean this is just too damn much to take. |
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spoilerwolf
Supernatural Fight Club
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Post by spoilerwolf on Feb 14, 2012 18:51:17 GMT -5
One of the big things I'm finding wrong about this season is the pod Dean we've been substituted for the kick ass Dean of seasons 1-3 who vowed to kill anyone who hurt his brother. It's so depressing to see this pod Dean who sits around feeling sorry for himself, boohooing about what a crappy life he's had, while Sam who is silently falling apart is trying his best to best supportive of Dean and keeps his problems to himself so he won't burden Dean with them. I'm dreading ep 17 so much because I'm so afraid that this pod Dean will be further destroyed by showing more concern for the winged rat than for his own brother who has finally lost his tenuous hold on reality and is going insane. The things Jensen said at the con filled me with fear about where they're going to go with this horrible character. Dean does seem completely oblivious right now to everything that's going on with Sam. I know that Sam is doing everything possible to hang onto his sanity and is hiding his problems from Dean, but let's face it... A few years ago Dean would have noticed the least little thing wrong with Sam, no matter how much Sam tried to hide it. Dean was acutely aware of every sniffle or hurt feeling. Now? Short of bleeding out all over the Impala, Dean notices nothing. He's so caught up in his own pain that he's missing the very clear signs that things are not all right with Sam. But then again, there was also a time when Dean actually worried about things because of how the impacted Sam. He worried over the YED deal and the Special Children issue because of what it meant for Sam. Now all the horrible things that have happened to Sam are only important because of how they impact Dean. Sam being damaged by Castiel was an issue because it was yet another thing weighing down on Dean. The fact that Sam was being driven insane by having Lucifer stuck in his skull, reminding Sam of everything he endured in the cage was secondary to it being another thing Dean felt bad about. And it made me angry with Dean because I wanted to slap him upside the head and tell him to get over himself. I don't want to be angry with Dean because I love the guy and I know what he's been through, but it was painful to see him so shortsighted about what was happening around him. It is infuriating that Dean is expected to drop everything as soon as Castiel is back in the picture. Castiel had been the cause of so much suffering to both him and Sam and for Dean to show him concern, while Sam has been falling apart right before his eyes and we get nothing from Dean is really rubbing salt in the wounds. The show has been trying to force the "profound bond" so badly that it's destroyed Dean in the process. The fact that Dean apparently is unable to help Sam beyond having Sam locked away for his own good (after Sam sacrificed his soul to save the world and was left damaged due to Castiel's meddling), but will drop everything because Castiel's nut is cracked just leaves an awful taste in my mouth. It's things like this when I almost wish the Destiel loons would get their wish and the two of them can ride off into the sunset together while Sam gets paired up with someone useful and who actually sees past the tip of her own nose. Sheriff Mills is looking awfully good right about now. Word. This has been my biggest problem with Dean this season is is self-absorbed world that he lives in. Sure, Dean should deal with his issues, but he completely ignores Sam, and, as you said, turns everything that happens to THEM or to SAM, about himself. In Dean's world, at this time, anything that happens affects HIM first, everyone else a distant second. Sam's struggling to hold them both above water, but Dean seems content to let Sam drown himself to keep his behind afloat. Now, i'm not saying Dean's doing this maliciously, I don't think he is - I think he's just very self absorbed and has been this whole season. Why? I can't answer that. I STILL don't now where this angst is coming from. Not. a. clue. So yeah, not looking forward to eppy 17. Whenever Castiel is on the screen, both boys (but Dean especially) seem to drop IQ points. |
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1027phoenix
Farm Hand to the Kents
[C01:990033]
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Post by 1027phoenix on Feb 14, 2012 21:14:27 GMT -5
One of the big things I'm finding wrong about this season is the pod Dean we've been substituted for the kick ass Dean of seasons 1-3 who vowed to kill anyone who hurt his brother. It's so depressing to see this pod Dean who sits around feeling sorry for himself, boohooing about what a crappy life he's had, while Sam who is silently falling apart is trying his best to best supportive of Dean and keeps his problems to himself so he won't burden Dean with them. I'm dreading ep 17 so much because I'm so afraid that this pod Dean will be further destroyed by showing more concern for the winged rat than for his own brother who has finally lost his tenuous hold on reality and is going insane. The things Jensen said at the con filled me with fear about where they're going to go with this horrible character. Dean does seem completely oblivious right now to everything that's going on with Sam. I know that Sam is doing everything possible to hang onto his sanity and is hiding his problems from Dean, but let's face it... A few years ago Dean would have noticed the least little thing wrong with Sam, no matter how much Sam tried to hide it. Dean was acutely aware of every sniffle or hurt feeling. Now? Short of bleeding out all over the Impala, Dean notices nothing. He's so caught up in his own pain that he's missing the very clear signs that things are not all right with Sam. But then again, there was also a time when Dean actually worried about things because of how the impacted Sam. He worried over the YED deal and the Special Children issue because of what it meant for Sam. Now all the horrible things that have happened to Sam are only important because of how they impact Dean. Sam being damaged by Castiel was an issue because it was yet another thing weighing down on Dean. The fact that Sam was being driven insane by having Lucifer stuck in his skull, reminding Sam of everything he endured in the cage was secondary to it being another thing Dean felt bad about. And it made me angry with Dean because I wanted to slap him upside the head and tell him to get over himself. I don't want to be angry with Dean because I love the guy and I know what he's been through, but it was painful to see him so shortsighted about what was happening around him. It is infuriating that Dean is expected to drop everything as soon as Castiel is back in the picture. Castiel had been the cause of so much suffering to both him and Sam and for Dean to show him concern, while Sam has been falling apart right before his eyes and we get nothing from Dean is really rubbing salt in the wounds. The show has been trying to force the "profound bond" so badly that it's destroyed Dean in the process. The fact that Dean apparently is unable to help Sam beyond having Sam locked away for his own good (after Sam sacrificed his soul to save the world and was left damaged due to Castiel's meddling), but will drop everything because Castiel's nut is cracked just leaves an awful taste in my mouth. It's things like this when I almost wish the Destiel loons would get their wish and the two of them can ride off into the sunset together while Sam gets paired up with someone useful and who actually sees past the tip of her own nose. Sheriff Mills is looking awfully good right about now. YES! My feelings exactly. I so do not want Cas back. I'd rather have Dean return to who he was and take a good long look at what Cas has done to Sam and waste him for it. Cas has done more terrible things to the boys than all the other baddies put together. |
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JazzBeePrime
Supernatural Fight Club
Commence Badass Hunter Mode[C01:0099FF]
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Post by JazzBeePrime on Feb 14, 2012 22:06:10 GMT -5
so nice to see the dean slams still in full effect. i missed those so very much  yes, sam has literally been to hell and back.he's been tormented and torn apart by luci. metaphorically speaking, so has dean. he had to watch his beloved baby brother 'die' and not be able to do a damn thing about it. he's worn that guilt badge since s1, and with each passing season it became more intense. he's done everything he can to protect all the people around him that he loves, only to watch them die anyway. irregardless of what many think, dean knows that alls not well with sammy. he just isnt aware of how bad it is, and thats in part to sam trying to keep it from him so dean doesnt worry even more. dean reached a breaking point before bobby's death. he had given up on just about everything. then bobby died, and it left both boys numb. it was a smidge harder on dean because he saw bobby as that loving father figure. not that sammy didnt love him too. its just that bobby seemed more like a beloved uncle to sam. from what i have read, dean IS NOT that happy to see cas. he's mad at him for the betrayal and he doesn't trust him. where he becomes 'conflicted' is when castiel's re-appearence brings up some buried issues that dean has to face. that doesn't mean that those issues have to do with cas. they could simply just be triggered by his re-appearence. ok, i feel better now that i got that all out  |
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Lostcause
Supernatural Fight Club
Don't be economic girlie men!
Posts: 1,273
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Post by Lostcause on Feb 14, 2012 23:01:47 GMT -5
Regarding Dean being so selfabsorbed.
I've pointed it out before, that it's not really that far out behaviour for someone who's on the rebound after a long long self hating trip.
Dean has for what, 20 years? Something close to that, been carrying the responsibility of keeping Sam safe. In his mind, he's failed to do so, more than once.
This story arc, while it may have Dean focussing a lot more on how things affect himself than he used to do, it's not that uncommon to see in people, who've lost all motivation and hope to go on. People suffering from PTSD or extreme depressions, who've been on the brink of suicide, they very often go through a phase of realising the impact the world and effects has on them, along with the impact they have on the world. It's needed to make them realise their worth, to themselves, their family & friends and the world around them.
While it might seem selfish, I haven't had any trouble understanding it, and seeing it as a step in rediscovering himself.
As for Cas coming back, I really can't see Dean just jumping in and trusting him, nor anything he has to say. Jazz has a point, it could very well be Cas brings up something that Dean knows is true but wishes wasn't, and it may very well revolve around Sam.
I'm going to hold judgement until I see it at least.
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Post by CaptainBill on Feb 15, 2012 0:25:17 GMT -5
@.jazzbeeprime, I hope you are right because if it was me who witnessed a so-called friend attacking my little brother in front of me I would go completely murderous on him. Then resurrect Cas so I can kill him again. I am not pleased with the current navel grazing Dean but waiting out the season before passing final judgement. Now I am going to be a total jackass, "irregardless" is a nonstandard word, a double negative. "Regardless" is the correct term. Ok, feel better now that i got that all out |
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shadowhund
Supernatural Fight Club
[C01:006666]
Posts: 241
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Post by shadowhund on Feb 15, 2012 1:51:51 GMT -5
One of the big things I'm finding wrong about this season is the pod Dean we've been substituted for the kick ass Dean of seasons 1-3 who vowed to kill anyone who hurt his brother. It's so depressing to see this pod Dean who sits around feeling sorry for himself, boohooing about what a crappy life he's had, while Sam who is silently falling apart is trying his best to best supportive of Dean and keeps his problems to himself so he won't burden Dean with them. I'm dreading ep 17 so much because I'm so afraid that this pod Dean will be further destroyed by showing more concern for the winged rat than for his own brother who has finally lost his tenuous hold on reality and is going insane. The things Jensen said at the con filled me with fear about where they're going to go with this horrible character. Dean does seem completely oblivious right now to everything that's going on with Sam. I know that Sam is doing everything possible to hang onto his sanity and is hiding his problems from Dean, but let's face it... A few years ago Dean would have noticed the least little thing wrong with Sam, no matter how much Sam tried to hide it. Dean was acutely aware of every sniffle or hurt feeling. Now? Short of bleeding out all over the Impala, Dean notices nothing. He's so caught up in his own pain that he's missing the very clear signs that things are not all right with Sam. But then again, there was also a time when Dean actually worried about things because of how the impacted Sam. He worried over the YED deal and the Special Children issue because of what it meant for Sam. Now all the horrible things that have happened to Sam are only important because of how they impact Dean. Sam being damaged by Castiel was an issue because it was yet another thing weighing down on Dean. The fact that Sam was being driven insane by having Lucifer stuck in his skull, reminding Sam of everything he endured in the cage was secondary to it being another thing Dean felt bad about. And it made me angry with Dean because I wanted to slap him upside the head and tell him to get over himself. I don't want to be angry with Dean because I love the guy and I know what he's been through, but it was painful to see him so shortsighted about what was happening around him. It is infuriating that Dean is expected to drop everything as soon as Castiel is back in the picture. Castiel had been the cause of so much suffering to both him and Sam and for Dean to show him concern, while Sam has been falling apart right before his eyes and we get nothing from Dean is really rubbing salt in the wounds. The show has been trying to force the "profound bond" so badly that it's destroyed Dean in the process. The fact that Dean apparently is unable to help Sam beyond having Sam locked away for his own good (after Sam sacrificed his soul to save the world and was left damaged due to Castiel's meddling), but will drop everything because Castiel's nut is cracked just leaves an awful taste in my mouth. It's things like this when I almost wish the Destiel loons would get their wish and the two of them can ride off into the sunset together while Sam gets paired up with someone useful and who actually sees past the tip of her own nose. Sheriff Mills is looking awfully good right about now. Ravanne, hey great to have you back, I always love to read your posts! Aboút Dean not seeing his brother is not in a good shape.....hm, there is something. I read that Jared brought in little scenes and moments in that he tried to show in his scenes that Sam is pressing on the scar and I think too, that we would have seen a facial fitting expression of Sam. But Jared said also, that he didn't watch the episodes since season 5, only "Deaths Door" what we all know since we follow Jared on twitter! Jared talking about that we have seen Sam pressing at his scar and Jared was convinced we would know that and see that. The writing/directing crew decided to take those little scenes out, because they never appeared in the episodes execpt the rare (really rare) scenes we know!!! I think they cut it out on purpose, because when we see Sam pressing the scar, Dean should too. But Dean doesn't and we don't. Well, that's exactly what I missed the whole season, little snipptes of Sam, Jared wanted to provide, but the tbcb?  (wirters/producers) skipped it! We only know that Sam has something going on reagrding his hell time because SG and Jared talked about. There were some little little signs in the last two episodes, I could interprete also that something is not okay with Sam! I think we have to mourn a character death, the character of Dean Winchester. I don't know him anymore! Castiel hurt the character of Dean in a totally different level than Castiel hurt Sam and did Dean's character no favour. Well, when I go further I only can think of a season 4 Sam with Ruby (but totally hidden in the dark...storywise) when I think of season 7 Dean with Castiel (but this totally not hidden and I assume written in a sympathetic light to Dean's character). Well, I don't feel right now the sympathy to this story telling! I said that I will watch till the end of season 7 and look in retrospective, what they wanted to tell us with the story and I will pay attention to Sam of course and will especially watch Dean, how he is reacting to Sam, to Castiel and when they try to convince me that Dean has his long lost BFF back and turning away from Sam and needing Castiel as his back up (they seemingly have each others back according to Jensen) when this is what they want to tell, then I am out for season 8. I can't stand to watch another season with such underlying hints regarding their relationship. I expect very little regarding Sam right now so my expectations are low and I can't get more disappointed than I am already am! |
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Post by jadezepplin on Feb 15, 2012 19:49:40 GMT -5
I wish the writers could see these comments. Why does it seem like they only hear from the "others"?  |
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spoilerwolf
Supernatural Fight Club
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Post by spoilerwolf on Feb 15, 2012 22:10:40 GMT -5
so nice to see the dean slams still in full effect. i missed those so very much yes, sam has literally been to hell and back.he's been tormented and torn apart by luci. metaphorically speaking, so has dean. he had to watch his beloved baby brother 'die' and not be able to do a damn thing about it. he's worn that guilt badge since s1, and with each passing season it became more intense. he's done everything he can to protect all the people around him that he loves, only to watch them die anyway. irregardless of what many think, dean knows that alls not well with sammy. he just isnt aware of how bad it is, and thats in part to sam trying to keep it from him so dean doesnt worry even more. dean reached a breaking point before bobby's death. he had given up on just about everything. then bobby died, and it left both boys numb. it was a smidge harder on dean because he saw bobby as that loving father figure. not that sammy didnt love him too. its just that bobby seemed more like a beloved uncle to sam. from what i have read, dean IS NOT that happy to see cas. he's mad at him for the betrayal and he doesn't trust him. where he becomes 'conflicted' is when castiel's re-appearence brings up some buried issues that dean has to face. that doesn't mean that those issues have to do with cas. they could simply just be triggered by his re-appearence. ok, i feel better now that i got that all out You good now, Tens? I'm glad you got that off your chest. Now it's my turn. What you just described (Dean's "emotional fall" if you will) - all of that can be applied to Sam too - but you don't see Sam moping around season after season and never evolving and growing. That is easily the BIGGEST mistake the writers have done to poor Dean - they never make him mature and learn from the disasters that happen in his life and have him achieve a better outlook on his life and what he does. Yes, some pity party is deserved by the boys (heck, they need a boost once in a while) but in the same breath: buck up bucko, life's hard. And watching someone mope for 6 seasons is not what I call enjoyable (we all watch this show to be entertained - I'm not being entertained by this right now). However, that's just in my opinion. So you feel like I'm insulting Dean? Well Tens, all I can say is that I'm sorry that that is how you feel, but how you react and feel about another person's written word is your responsibility, not mine. The opposite is true for me, as it is for everybody else. At the end of the day, WE ALL watch this show for ourselves - not for other people. And I'll be honest - and I'm always honest about how I feel - is that Dean's self absorbed this season and I'm STILL struggling to understand WHY. So for me, I don't care for this soap box 'woe as me, my life sucks' version of Dean. He's been singing that tune for 6 freaking seasons (hell, season 1 too if you want to count that) - and I'm DONE. Emotionally drained from watching it. That is my right to feel that way. You're not going to be changing my opinion - I'm not here to change yours. I am, however, allowed to express my opinion about FICTIONAL characters, however I please. I do NOT see Dean getting to a "better place" emotionally because the writers never "fix" Dean - they just ignore it, or he carries on as the Eeyore of this show. I don't see Dean the same way as you do - that's fine. We differ on what we see. It's called individuality. It would kind of suck if we all mindlessly agreed to everything. I'm nothing if not honest. I don't really like the characterization of Dean this season. I'm putting it bluntly. I'm pissed at the writers for writing him as some pining idiot whose waiting in the wings for the blundering Castiel to return. I don't understand Dean's characterization this year - hell, he was WAY WAY better last year than this year, even with the horrible "like a brother to me" comment & the Lisa/Ben disaster. *tastes bile* I DO feel like the boys (and like I said, in particular, Dean) drop IQ points when Castiel is around, so NO, i'm not looking forward to Castiel returning. And Dean being 'not happy to see Cas' is in contradiction to what JA said HERE: WARNINGS - SPOILERS! LOOK AWAY NOW IF YOU DON'T WANT TO BE SPOILED!!!"Castiel -- or at least, a guy who looks like Castiel -- will come into play as Sam spirals. "It's not Castiel," Jensen says. "It is, but it isn't. First, Dean's just gobsmacked. It even says 'jaw to the floor,' I think, when he sees him. I think there's a lot of mixed emotions about it. He's probably elated to have his friend back, and somebody who he knows that he can count on, even though he doesn't know who he is -- meaning Cas doesn't know that he's Cas. Personally, from an actor's standpoint, I'm just glad to have the gang back together, so to speak." We're hoping that Castiel's return gives Dean a little bit of inspiration to move forward. "There's an excitement there because I think he'd lost a lot of hope when Cas went away. That was a really big blow, I think, to his motivation in this fight, and then again when Bobby left. He feels like he doesn't really have -- he obviously has his brother, but he's... a mental case right now, so even though he has his brother, part of his brother, it's a tough time for Dean right now."[/spoiler] So... yeah, vomit inducing. If Dean runs back to Cas with open arms while is brother is in the loony bin BECAUSE of Cas, irregardless of him remembering the harm he has done to Sam? Then Dean, quite frankly, is a freaking idiot and the writers will have essentially destroyed his character for me. It's character assassination for ME. Others may feel different, and that's fine. But that's how I will feel. And also, by the sounds of it (and this is in MY opinion) Dean sees Sam as 'damaged goods' - so he's not even counting Sam as a whole person because in HIS mind, Sam is "cray cray" - and therefore is unreliable as a support. How nice of you, Dean. *is angry* and if you were wondering, here's the link for the article: blog.zap2it.com/frominsidethebox/2012/02/supernatural-jensen-ackles-and-jared-padalecki-talk-clowns-castiel-and-going-crazy.htmlAnd from the same article here:
WARNING!! SPOILERS BELOW!!! "Dean is dangerously close to losing Sam as well -- and he doesn't even know it yet." So, take from that as you will, but my interpretation (meaning my opinion) from the show and some of the spoilers is that Dean is either A) In total denial about Sam's well being or 2) Dean is totally ignorant of Sam's well being. One implies some knowledge, but is trying to hide from that fact - the other implies he can't see it because he can't be bothered to look that hard. So yes, I'm being hard on Dean right now because I'm not really getting anything in return from the writers from this character. I WANT to love Dean - but I fell in love with the Dean of old - you know, the one that was a badass and took charge - kicked ass and took names. Was a good, protective brother and proud hunter. He's a hell of a long way from that, and part of that fault, for me, is because of Castiel and his constant interference. Because to put it bluntly: Castiel was (and still is) Dean's Ruby. That's how I view it. He (Castiel) was just as much a conniving, manipulating, self serving bastard who used Dean, just as the opposite was true of Ruby. Only Dean can't see it because he refuses to think he can be duped like Sam was (oh, is he wrong...). To this point, Dean was and will still be conned when Cas comes back. Now I'm glad I got that off my chest. |
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Rose
Supernatural Fight Club
Every rose has it's thorn[C01:ed143d][k4r]
Posts: 442
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Post by Rose on Feb 15, 2012 22:24:11 GMT -5
so nice to see the dean slams still in full effect. i missed those so very much yes, sam has literally been to hell and back.he's been tormented and torn apart by luci. metaphorically speaking, so has dean. he had to watch his beloved baby brother 'die' and not be able to do a damn thing about it. he's worn that guilt badge since s1, and with each passing season it became more intense. he's done everything he can to protect all the people around him that he loves, only to watch them die anyway. irregardless of what many think, dean knows that alls not well with sammy. he just isnt aware of how bad it is, and thats in part to sam trying to keep it from him so dean doesnt worry even more. dean reached a breaking point before bobby's death. he had given up on just about everything. then bobby died, and it left both boys numb. it was a smidge harder on dean because he saw bobby as that loving father figure. not that sammy didnt love him too. its just that bobby seemed more like a beloved uncle to sam. from what i have read, dean IS NOT that happy to see cas. he's mad at him for the betrayal and he doesn't trust him. where he becomes 'conflicted' is when castiel's re-appearence brings up some buried issues that dean has to face. that doesn't mean that those issues have to do with cas. they could simply just be triggered by his re-appearence. ok, i feel better now that i got that all out You good now, Tens? I'm glad you got that off your chest. Now it's my turn. What you just described (Dean's "emotional fall" if you will) - all of that can be applied to Sam too - but you don't see Sam moping around season after season and never evolving and growing. That is easily the BIGGEST mistake the writers have done to poor Dean - they never make him mature and learn from the disasters that happen in his life and have him achieve a better outlook on his life and what he does. Yes, some pity party is deserved by the boys (heck, they need a boost once in a while) but in the same breath: buck up bucko, life's hard. And watching someone mope for 6 seasons is not what I call enjoyable (we all watch this show to be entertained - I'm not being entertained by this right now). However, that's just in my opinion. So you feel like I'm insulting Dean? Well Tens, all I can say is that I'm sorry that that is how you feel, but how you react and feel about another person's written word is your responsibility, not mine. The opposite is true for me, as it is for everybody else. At the end of the day, WE ALL watch this show for ourselves - not for other people. And I'll be honest - and I'm always honest about how I feel - is that Dean's self absorbed this season and I'm STILL struggling to understand WHY. So for me, I don't care for this soap box 'woe as me, my life sucks' version of Dean. He's been singing that tune for 6 freaking seasons (hell, season 1 too if you want to count that) - and I'm DONE. Emotionally drained from watching it. That is my right to feel that way. You're not going to be changing my opinion - I'm not here to change yours. I am, however, allowed to express my opinion about FICTIONAL characters, however I please. I do NOT see Dean getting to a "better place" emotionally because the writers never "fix" Dean - they just ignore it, or he carries on as the Eeyore of this show. I don't see Dean the same way as you do - that's fine. We differ on what we see. It's called individuality. It would kind of suck if we all mindlessly agreed to everything. I'm nothing if not honest. I don't really like the characterization of Dean this season. I'm putting it bluntly. I'm pissed at the writers for writing him as some pining idiot whose waiting in the wings for the blundering Castiel to return. I don't understand Dean's characterization this year - hell, he was WAY WAY better last year than this year, even with the horrible "like a brother to me" comment & the Lisa/Ben disaster. *tastes bile* I DO feel like the boys (and like I said, in particular, Dean) drop IQ points when Castiel is around, so NO, i'm not looking forward to Castiel returning. And Dean being 'not happy to see Cas' is in contradiction to what JA said HERE: WARNINGS - SPOILERS! LOOK AWAY NOW IF YOU DON'T WANT TO BE SPOILED!!!"Castiel -- or at least, a guy who looks like Castiel -- will come into play as Sam spirals. "It's not Castiel," Jensen says. "It is, but it isn't. First, Dean's just gobsmacked. It even says 'jaw to the floor,' I think, when he sees him. I think there's a lot of mixed emotions about it. He's probably elated to have his friend back, and somebody who he knows that he can count on, even though he doesn't know who he is -- meaning Cas doesn't know that he's Cas. Personally, from an actor's standpoint, I'm just glad to have the gang back together, so to speak." We're hoping that Castiel's return gives Dean a little bit of inspiration to move forward. "There's an excitement there because I think he'd lost a lot of hope when Cas went away. That was a really big blow, I think, to his motivation in this fight, and then again when Bobby left. He feels like he doesn't really have -- he obviously has his brother, but he's... a mental case right now, so even though he has his brother, part of his brother, it's a tough time for Dean right now." [/spoiler] So... yeah, vomit inducing. If Dean runs back to Cas with open arms while is brother is in the loony bin BECAUSE of Cas, irregardless of him remembering the harm he has done to Sam? Then Dean, quite frankly, is a freaking idiot and the writers will have essentially destroyed his character for me. It's character assassination for ME. Others may feel different, and that's fine. But that's how I will feel. And also, by the sounds of it (and this is in MY opinion) Dean sees Sam as 'damaged goods' - so he's not even counting Sam as a whole person because in HIS mind, Sam is "cray cray" - and therefore is unreliable as a support. How nice of you, Dean. *is angry* and if you were wondering, here's the link for the article: blog.zap2it.com/frominsidethebox/2012/02/supernatural-jensen-ackles-and-jared-padalecki-talk-clowns-castiel-and-going-crazy.htmlAnd from the same article here:
WARNING!! SPOILERS BELOW!!! "Dean is dangerously close to losing Sam as well -- and he doesn't even know it yet." So, take from that as you will, but my interpretation (meaning my opinion) from the show and some of the spoilers is that Dean is either A) In total denial about Sam's well being or 2) Dean is totally ignorant of Sam's well being. One implies some knowledge, but is trying to hide from that fact - the other implies he can't see it because he can't be bothered to look that hard. So yes, I'm being hard on Dean right now because I'm not really getting anything in return from the writers from this character. I WANT to love Dean - but I fell in love with the Dean of old - you know, the one that was a badass and took charge - kicked ass and took names. Was a good, protective brother and proud hunter. He's a hell of a long way from that, and part of that fault, for me, is because of Castiel and his constant interference. Because to put it bluntly: Castiel was (and still is) Dean's Ruby. That's how I view it. He (Castiel) was just as much a conniving, manipulating, self serving bastard who used Dean, just as the opposite was true of Ruby. Only Dean can't see it because he refuses to think he can be duped like Sam was (oh, is he wrong...). To this point, Dean was and will still be conned when Cas comes back. Now I'm glad I got that off my chest. [/quote] Fucking QUOTED for the fucking TRUTH. Thank you, Jess. I am so glad somebody finally said it. Tens... stop whining about Dean. Seriously. Stop. Stop accusing people of "bashing" him just because they don't agree with you or see him how YOU do. It's amazing how you can run off to your little forum and even here to bitch and rant about Sam girls and how you watch the show for BOTH brothers, not one and accuse of us not watching the show for both brothers when we get upset or angry on how Sam is treated. Double fucking standard much? Hello, Pot! Meet Kettle! Felt good to get that off my chest, seeing as how I'm consistently accused of it. The hypocrisy, it's too much. I'm well aware of what is said about me over your forum. Just FYI! People do keep me updated. |
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JazzBeePrime
Supernatural Fight Club
Commence Badass Hunter Mode[C01:0099FF]
Posts: 270
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Post by JazzBeePrime on Feb 15, 2012 22:44:32 GMT -5
Regarding Dean being so selfabsorbed. I've pointed it out before, that it's not really that far out behaviour for someone who's on the rebound after a long long self hating trip. Dean has for what, 20 years? Something close to that, been carrying the responsibility of keeping Sam safe. In his mind, he's failed to do so, more than once. This story arc, while it may have Dean focussing a lot more on how things affect himself than he used to do, it's not that uncommon to see in people, who've lost all motivation and hope to go on. People suffering from PTSD or extreme depressions, who've been on the brink of suicide, they very often go through a phase of realising the impact the world and effects has on them, along with the impact they have on the world. It's needed to make them realise their worth, to themselves, their family & friends and the world around them. While it might seem selfish, I haven't had any trouble understanding it, and seeing it as a step in rediscovering himself. As for Cas coming back, I really can't see Dean just jumping in and trusting him, nor anything he has to say. Jazz has a point, it could very well be Cas brings up something that Dean knows is true but wishes wasn't, and it may very well revolve around Sam. I'm going to hold judgement until I see it at least.   very well said lostcause. i completely agree with this. it doesn't mean dean cares any less for sam, or doesn't notice something is amiss with him. the emotional roller coaster dean has strapped himself into over the course of 29 years, probably does make it a little more difficult for him to see 'the forest for the trees', so to speak. i don't blame him for that, anymore than i blame sammy for his mental turmoil. as for cas, i think where any conflict dean may have, could be over whether or not he trusts castiel's current state enough to possibly use him to help his brother. by 'use', i do mean use cas the way cas used them. |
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Post by benson35 on Feb 15, 2012 22:50:39 GMT -5
Why the hell are you even here Rose, your not a skeptic. Both these girls have made great points, which is why Sam and Dean are so amazingly complicated and entoxicating. I've enjoyed reading both and I can agree and disagree with both or even agree with both in their own way.
I think Spoilers is probably more the writers making Dean bend over and not care and that is not the Dean that we were first introduced too and the them of the show UNTIL castipop turns up. Which is different to yours...I blame Dean for everything bad with Sam whether it be no storyline or anything and everything else.
You don't need to step in here and give your brand of bias...
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Rose
Supernatural Fight Club
Every rose has it's thorn[C01:ed143d][k4r]
Posts: 442
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Post by Rose on Feb 15, 2012 22:57:10 GMT -5
Why the hell are you even here Rose, your not a skeptic. Both these girls have made great points, which is why Sam and Dean are so amazingly complicated and entoxicating. I've enjoyed reading both and I can agree and disagree with both or even agree with both in their own way. I think Spoilers is probably more the writers making Dean bend over and not care and that is not the Dean that we were first introduced too and the them of the show UNTIL castipop turns up. Which is different to yours...I blame Dean for everything bad with Sam whether it be no storyline or anything and everything else. You don't need to step in here and give your brand of bias... Benson, I can do, say and post wherever the fuck I want. If you don't like it, kindly piss off and don't read my stuff. |
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Post by benson35 on Feb 15, 2012 22:58:58 GMT -5
Can you and guess what 'rose' so can I!
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spoilerwolf
Supernatural Fight Club
[k4r][C01:990099]
Posts: 60
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Post by spoilerwolf on Feb 15, 2012 22:59:38 GMT -5
Why the hell are you even here Rose, your not a skeptic. Both these girls have made great points, which is why Sam and Dean are so amazingly complicated and entoxicating. I've enjoyed reading both and I can agree and disagree with both or even agree with both in their own way. I think Spoilers is probably more the writers making Dean bend over and not care and that is not the Dean that we were first introduced too and the them of the show UNTIL castipop turns up. Which is different to yours...I blame Dean for everything bad with Sam whether it be no storyline or anything and everything else. You don't need to step in here and give your brand of bias... If you want to get technical, I don't know if Tens is a skeptic either...  Just sayin'. |
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Rose
Supernatural Fight Club
Every rose has it's thorn[C01:ed143d][k4r]
Posts: 442
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Post by Rose on Feb 15, 2012 23:01:59 GMT -5
Can you and guess what 'rose' so can I! Good. If you can, then please do it. I wasn't speaking to you, talking to you or even remotely bothering you, so why the fuck are you even bothering me? And just for the record, tens isn't a skeptic. Again, Pot meet Kettle. |
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Aeryn
Supernatural Fight Club
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Post by Aeryn on Feb 15, 2012 23:03:54 GMT -5
Why the hell are you even here Rose, your not a skeptic. Both these girls have made great points, which is why Sam and Dean are so amazingly complicated and entoxicating. I've enjoyed reading both and I can agree and disagree with both or even agree with both in their own way. I think Spoilers is probably more the writers making Dean bend over and not care and that is not the Dean that we were first introduced too and the them of the show UNTIL castipop turns up. Which is different to yours...I blame Dean for everything bad with Sam whether it be no storyline or anything and everything else. You don't need to step in here and give your brand of bias... Benson, I can do, say and post wherever the fuck I want. If you don't like it, kindly piss off and don't read my stuff. |
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spoilerwolf
Supernatural Fight Club
[k4r][C01:990099]
Posts: 60
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Post by spoilerwolf on Feb 15, 2012 23:04:34 GMT -5
Can't you guys just PLEASE get along?
Shake hands & hold hands and go singing lalalalala towards a sunset? Hell, a sunRISE?
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Post by benson35 on Feb 15, 2012 23:05:42 GMT -5
Because that is my right as a skeptic to come in here and wonder what the F bought you in here since your aren't a skeptic.
I think tens is a skeptic, I don't know if she dislikes Castiel but I think more she's about the boys and her theories are always about the boys. The skeptics has never always been about disliking and talking about Castipop. But its about shooting off theories and discussing spoilers.
I'm not sure 'Rose' can do that without bagging one of 'em' (hint it aint Sam)
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It'll be interesting, to be sure! 
(wirters/producers) skipped it! We only know that Sam has something going on reagrding his hell time because SG and Jared talked about. There were some little little signs in the last two episodes, I could interprete also that something is not okay with Sam!
