New Description for 7:14 SPOILERS

[percysowner]

Plucky Pennywhistle's Magic Menagerie

Season 7 Episode 14

Aired date: Feb 10, 2012

Plot: Sam and Dean investigate strange happenings in a town where childhood fears are coming to life. To Sam's horror his childhood fear of clowns manifests in a very violent and traumatic way which in turn leads to Dean's childhood fear, losing his brother.

From
www.ovguide.com/tv_episode/supernatural-season-7-episode-14-plucky-pennywhistles-magic-menagerie-4195869

Slightly more than we had before. I guess this coming down to Dean's fears about losing Sam instead of finding out why Sam is afraid of clowns fits with the rest of the season.

[SoCal]

Just remember that quite ofthen the "hints" about upcoming episodes leave a heck of a lot out.

My favorite episodes include both Sam and Dean. ;D

[percysowner]

Jan 30, 2012 15:08:21 GMT -5 SoCal said:

Just remember that quite ofthen the "hints" about upcoming episodes leave a heck of a lot out.

My favorite episodes include both Sam and Dean. ;D

My favorites include both of them as well. I'm just tired of Dean has to save Sam, Dean faces his fear of losing Sam AGAIN. Sam squeezes his hand and is a brave, silent little camper.

That said, you are right, the hints do leave out a lot.

[SoCal]

Hasn't Sam saved Dean a few times?

But I agree, I think the writers need to get past this "Dean is afraid of losing Sam" storyline. Although, in "Mysteryspot" and "No Rest For The Wicked," we saw that Sam is also afraid of losing Dean.

Maybe we're just being too critical??? Nah!!!

[shadowhund]

oh another Dean centric Episode? The umpteen times? I am very very tired of another Dean angst episode

[Cinca]

Dean has to save Sam? Whoa. Color me shocked. And no, I am not being sarcastic.

That means hurt Sam? Think I am gonna wait to see this one or else I am gonna get my hopes up too high.

And to clarify, I am a Sam girl. Apologies for the tone.

[waggy3015]

I wonder if Sam's fear doesn't come out more violent and traumatic because of having Lucifer in his head all the time.

I know it's not until the next episode that Lucifer actually appears, but maybe this just accentuates what's already there, hence Sam's "madness" in the next episode.

Remember back in Season 5's Sam Interrupted the wraith said that Sam and the others were already crazy or angry, she just amped it up with her poison.

[DeanandSam]

Sounds exciting. I don't mind seeing Dean having the fear "Of losing Sam" That is what the show is centered around. It has always been centered around both brothers and their fucked up life where they are wrapped up in each other's lives, not not that way, but just genarlly in a way that they are the only ones in each other's lives.

Dean fearing to lose Sam, which we haven't really seen that side of him this season, makes sense because Dean has lost everybody else in his life, if he loses Sam, who does Dean have left?

Very happy, can't wait to see it

[shadowhund]

I don't know but I am not thrilled. Expect less Sam, only that he gets beaten up by clowns and Dean is again confronted with something, this time with childhood fears.

Maybe when you expect nothing it can only get better with the tiny little focus on any of Sam's issues!!

[spoilerwolf]

Jan 30, 2012 16:50:29 GMT -5 DeanandSam said:

Sounds exciting. I don't mind seeing Dean having the fear "Of losing Sam" That is what the show is centered around. It has always been centered around both brothers and their fucked up life where they are wrapped up in each other's lives, not not that way, but just genarlly in a way that they are the only ones in each other's lives.

Dean fearing to lose Sam, which we haven't really seen that side of him this season, makes sense because Dean has lost everybody else in his life, if he loses Sam, who does Dean have left?

Very happy, can't wait to see it

I'm totally 100% cool with Dean's childhood fear being losing Sam. I'd much rather that then the disinterested annoyed behavior Dean's had towards Sam all season. Dean's been a wet blanket and a downer all season for me. Stick a fork in him, he's done.

Maybe the next episode or two will shock some life into Dean.

The best flavor of the boys, imo, is when they are protective of each other. Toss in a bit of hurt Sam and I'm a happy gal

[benson35]

Jan 30, 2012 17:11:20 GMT -5 spoilerwolf said:

Jan 30, 2012 16:50:29 GMT -5 DeanandSam said:

Sounds exciting. I don't mind seeing Dean having the fear "Of losing Sam" That is what the show is centered around. It has always been centered around both brothers and their fucked up life where they are wrapped up in each other's lives, not not that way, but just genarlly in a way that they are the only ones in each other's lives.

Dean fearing to lose Sam, which we haven't really seen that side of him this season, makes sense because Dean has lost everybody else in his life, if he loses Sam, who does Dean have left?

Very happy, can't wait to see it

I'm totally 100% cool with Dean's childhood fear being losing Sam. I'd much rather that then the disinterested annoyed behavior Dean's had towards Sam all season. Dean's been a wet blanket and a downer all season for me. Stick a fork in him, he's done.

Maybe the next episode or two will shock some life into Dean.

The best flavor of the boys, imo, is when they are protective of each other. Toss in a bit of hurt Sam and I'm a happy gal

Preach it girl!!!

[JazzBeePrime]

BOTH boys are confronted by their childhood fears. for sam, his fear of clowns comes to life. those clowns then beat him up. i've read nothing that says that dean has to rescue sam. as for dean, his fear of losing sam, once again comes to light. it sounds to me as if the epi is bi-bro centric and not soley focusing on one or the other brother.

[MariaARIS3]

Jan 30, 2012 16:36:02 GMT -5 Cinca said:

Dean has to save Sam? Whoa. Color me shocked. And no, I am not being sarcastic.

That means hurt Sam? Think I am gonna wait to see this one or else I am gonna get my hopes up too high.

And to clarify, I am a Sam girl. Apologies for the tone.

OK, first of all, who Bieber'd Cinca? She just registered a couple of days ago and she only has two posts! OBJECTION!
(And I'm pretty sure I've seen at least one person -outside the SN section- having around 200 posts and no avatar... Do I have to start giving names here? )

[shadowhund]

Jan 30, 2012 16:36:02 GMT -5 Cinca said:

Dean has to save Sam? Whoa. Color me shocked. And no, I am not being sarcastic.

That means hurt Sam? Think I am gonna wait to see this one or else I am gonna get my hopes up too high.

And to clarify, I am a Sam girl. Apologies for the tone.

I don't understand your post, you mean you're excited for the episode because Sam is hurt and Dean will come to the rescue? You want some stuff about that, but you're cautious because you don't want your hopes to high?

I only don't understand, what is sarcastic, and what not, and what you want and what you don't want, so I am asking, because I want to know what you think!

[amelianne]

Jan 30, 2012 17:11:20 GMT -5 spoilerwolf said:

I'm totally 100% cool with Dean's childhood fear being losing Sam. I'd much rather that then the disinterested annoyed behavior Dean's had towards Sam all season. Dean's been a wet blanket and a downer all season for me. Stick a fork in him, he's done.

Wow. Well, I don't agree that Dean has been disinterested in Sam this season, or EVER, really. Even whey they have fought, I don't think Dean isn't thinking about Sam and his well-being.

And BOTH brothers have expressed annoyance at the other from time to time. They are brothers who live in each others' pockets most of the time, so that's bound to happen. But, even in the last episode, Dean seemed very connected to Sam, not at all a downer or a wet blanket.

I think your statement it really rather unfair to Dean and blames him unfairly, but, that's just my opinion.

Dean's childhood fear, losing his brother.

I think this is probably foreshadowing the rest of the season with Dean's fear of "losing" Sam to his hallucinations/mental breakdown.

I recently re-watched Everybody Loves a Clown. I just love that episode. Boys. :heart:

[MariaARIS3]

Jan 31, 2012 10:51:30 GMT -5 amelianne said:

Dean's childhood fear, losing his brother.

I think this is probably foreshadowing the rest of the season with Dean's fear of "losing" Sam to his hallucinations/mental breakdown.

I recently re-watched Everybody Loves a Clown. I just love that episode. Boys.

But what is it foreshadowing exactly? Sam's breakdown or Dean's reaction to Sam's breakdown? Haven't we seen enough of Dean's reactions to everything this season?

[amelianne]

Jan 31, 2012 11:07:08 GMT -5 MariaARIS3 said:

Jan 31, 2012 10:51:30 GMT -5 amelianne said:

I think this is probably foreshadowing the rest of the season with Dean's fear of "losing" Sam to his hallucinations/mental breakdown.

I recently re-watched Everybody Loves a Clown. I just love that episode. Boys.

But what is it foreshadowing exactly? Sam's breakdown or Dean's reaction to Sam's breakdown?

I think both. Sam's childhood fear was not feeling safe and feeling like he had no control over forces that might harm him, including forces within himself. Dean's childhood fear was not being able to keep Sam safe and not being able to protect him. I think both of their fears will be central to the second half of the season.

Haven't we seen enough of Dean's reactions to everything this season?

No. I really enjoy seeing Dean's reactions.

[MariaARIS3]

Jan 31, 2012 11:23:28 GMT -5 amelianne said:

I think both. Sam's childhood fear was not feeling safe and feeling like he had no control over forces that might harm him, including forces within himself. Dean's childhood fear was not being able to keep Sam safe and not being able to protect him. I think both of their fears will be central to the second half of the season.

If that's the case and the focus is on both I would be more than happy...!

Haven't we seen enough of Dean's reactions to everything this season?

No. I really enjoy seeing Dean's reactions.

I enjoy seeing Dean's reactions as well, but I'm tired of seeing JUST Dean's reactions. And so far that's what I've been seeing... I want more episodes like HCW where there was a perfect balance of showing both boys' feelings...

[shadowhund]

I have the theory that this season is Dean's downfall like Sam's season 4 downfall.

The difference is that Sam was hidden back then and got no sympathy for his actions, no empathetic view on his character hence he was drawn and quatered back then by fandom.

Dean's downfall is showed onscreen with much sympathy for his character, its so much and so obvious that I start to feel antipathetic towards the approach of his downfall by the writers.

Sam's personality is -again- hidden and I loathe that 100%.

Back in season 4 Dean was in the center while angels wanted something from him, and wanted to make an edge between the brothers. Dean was in the spot light and had whole episodes just for his character! The season was all about Dean even when his hell memories were not much in the middle. Because front issues were the angels and they wanted Dean to say yes to Michael so he would kill Lucifer in his brothers meat suit!


I understand that you like your favorite character in the center, Amelianne!


I want for Sam that the show gives him a voice and explore his personality and what he is doing when not researching, I want that Sam has relationships to people while investigating, and then he not can have this, I want to know why not. Is he clsing off himself from others, is he even thinking about other people, about himself, what does he feel about his return, how he is coping with Lucifer in his head and how it comes that he feels good.

AND SO ON!

Well now we know he is not good because he said one sentence (one sentence, 3 words!!!) to Dean in episode 11, wow show just wow! To little, to little insight in one of your main characters!

[amelianne]

Jan 31, 2012 11:44:52 GMT -5 shadowhund said:

I have the theory that this season is Dean's downfall like Sam's season 4 downfall.

The difference is that Sam was hidden back then and got no sympathy for his actions, no empathetic view on his character hence he was drawn and quatered back then by fandom.

Dean's downfall is showed onscreen with much sympathy for his character, its so much and so obvious that I start to feel antipathetic towards the approach of his downfall by the writers.

There is a significant portion of fandom who are not at all sympathetic about what Dean went through in hell, or what he went through with Sam in season 4, or even his current state of mind (nihilistic, depressed, alcoholic, etc). Many fans were vocal about not feeling any sympathy for Dean's hell trauma.

This season, I don't recall any sort of sympathy from fandom toward Dean when he killed Amy in TGND. Dean was pretty much skewered by most of fandom for that killing, especially since the writers gave Amy the POV and made her sympathetic.

So I will have to completely disagree with you that the writers intend to present Dean's downfall with sympathy. The writers have included a lot of anger, insensitivity, and physical violence in the way they have written Dean's downfall. I mean... Dean has been referred to as an "abuser" in this very forum.

So whether or not a character is viewed sympathetically probably depends on whether or not he/she is your character of preference. But certainly Dean is never given a supernatural reason for his bad decisions, unlike what the writers have given Sam. So that tells ME that the writers have no intention in portraying Dean in a sympathetic light in the situations where he hits Sam or where he's insensitive or angry or where he is depressed or where he drinks too much, etc. Dean is told to "suck it up and quit whining". Again, that is not the show trying to portray Dean in a sympathetic light IMO.

I understand that you like your favorite character in the center, Amelianne!

Oh but I don't need Dean to be in the center all alone though. He and Sam are both the central focus, to me. Sam primarily deals with external/supernatural forces that he must work to overcome, while Dean primarily deals with internal/human issues that he must work to overcome. Sam's issues tend to be related to the mytharc plot and Dean's tend to be related to the emotional storyline.

Dean isn't meant to be the one who has to deal with how supernatural forces affect his relevance to the mytharc plot, and Sam isn't meant to be the one who has to deal with how his emotional issues affect his relevance to the emotional plot. I think that's just the way the show has always presented both characters since the very beginning.

[geordiegirl1967]

Jan 30, 2012 16:33:16 GMT -5 shadowhund said:

oh another Dean centric Episode? The umpteen times? I am very very tired of another Dean angst episode

Not really sure how you can interpret this ep description as being Dean centric. It talks about both boys facing their worst fears. Sounds pretty even to me. I'm liking the sound of this one.

[shadowhund]

Jan 31, 2012 15:17:13 GMT -5 geordiegirl1967 said:

Jan 30, 2012 16:33:16 GMT -5 shadowhund said:

oh another Dean centric Episode? The umpteen times? I am very very tired of another Dean angst episode

Not really sure how you can interpret this ep description as being Dean centric. It talks about both boys facing their worst fears. Sounds pretty even to me. I'm liking the sound of this one.

Well I am very disaffected with almost nothing about Sam. Sam is cut off from others, guest stars, viewers!!!!I have no insight, no focus on Sam. I want that, I am connected via Sam with the series, even when the brothers are the center, for a long time now it is all how Dean is affected and I feel like they cut me off from Sam!

[shadowhund]

Amelianne, but the supernatural should have an influence and a reaction from Sam, atleast he should be able to deal with this onscreen! I don't need much in one episode, only a minute, or two!

[MariaARIS3]

Jan 31, 2012 15:17:13 GMT -5 geordiegirl1967 said:

Jan 30, 2012 16:33:16 GMT -5 shadowhund said:

oh another Dean centric Episode? The umpteen times? I am very very tired of another Dean angst episode

Not really sure how you can interpret this ep description as being Dean centric. It talks about both boys facing their worst fears. Sounds pretty even to me. I'm liking the sound of this one.

Maybe because English is not my (or Shadow's) mother language we have some trouble understanding things. Because the way I got it was that Sam's fears eventually lead us to Dean's fears and this sounds a little bit like we'll end up focusing on Dean's fears again... I just don't know how else am I supposed to interpret the "which in turn leads..." quote so any clarification would be appreciated...

[geordiegirl1967]

Jan 31, 2012 16:36:58 GMT -5 MariaARIS3 said:

Jan 31, 2012 15:17:13 GMT -5 geordiegirl1967 said:

Not really sure how you can interpret this ep description as being Dean centric. It talks about both boys facing their worst fears. Sounds pretty even to me. I'm liking the sound of this one.

Maybe because English is not my (or Shadow's) mother language we have some trouble understanding things. Because the way I got it was that Sam's fears eventually lead us to Dean's fears and this sounds a little bit like we'll end up focusing on Dean's fears again... I just don't know how else am I supposed to interpret the "which in turn leads..." quote so any clarification would be appreciated...

I would interpret it as this ep being about both boys. Sam is faced with his fear of clowns, which presumably he really struggles with. Maybe it is this that breaks down the method he has been using to keep Luci at bay. Then Dean has to face the fact that Sam may never be ok and that he might lose him. To me that sounds like a perfect ep; balanced between both boys, the drama coming from an external threat to the boys bond, loads of potential for relationship stuff, the plot turning back to how Sam is dealing mentally, protective / worried Dean. Sounds brilliant. Doesn't sound Dean centric at all to me.

[JazzBeePrime]

i agree with geordiegirl. this epi sounds pretty balanced between the boys. it sounds as if it may start off with sammy's fears coming to life. it also sounds like this epi is the set-up for epi 17, when sammy finally has a complete breakdown. i'm gonna guess that we'll see dean's fear come to life, more towards the end of the episode. maybe by episode's end, sam is having alot of trouble coming out of or holding off his hellucinations. dean sees that sammy is slipping into insanity, and he knows there's nothing he can do to stop it. all dean can do is watch his worst fear come true, he "loses" sammy to insanity. at least, that's the way i think it might happen between episode 16 and 17. we won't see dean saving sam, because this time, he can't save him. altho, that doesn't mean he won't try his damndest to reach him

[shadowhund]

Jan 31, 2012 18:11:45 GMT -5 geordiegirl1967 said:

Jan 31, 2012 16:36:58 GMT -5 MariaARIS3 said:

Maybe because English is not my (or Shadow's) mother language we have some trouble understanding things. Because the way I got it was that Sam's fears eventually lead us to Dean's fears and this sounds a little bit like we'll end up focusing on Dean's fears again... I just don't know how else am I supposed to interpret the "which in turn leads..." quote so any clarification would be appreciated...

I would interpret it as this ep being about both boys. Sam is faced with his fear of clowns, which presumably he really struggles with. Maybe it is this that breaks down the method he has been using to keep Luci at bay. Then Dean has to face the fact that Sam may never be ok and that he might lose him. To me that sounds like a perfect ep; balanced between both boys, the drama coming from an external threat to the boys bond, loads of potential for relationship stuff, the plot turning back to how Sam is dealing mentally, protective / worried Dean. Sounds brilliant. Doesn't sound Dean centric at all to me.

I would like for you (and for me) that you are right about your prediction.
The 13 episodes Dean arc is exhausting for me and is still not finished. See I wait for it to be over, because Sam was almost cut out from it.
This wasn't neccessary and I honestly don't understand why they did cut Sam out that much, since there is no myth arc with involving the Winchesters personally except they are the only ones who knows about the threat of the Leviathans, but even young teenager girls have more fighting skills and chutzpa than the worlds best hunters. I think Deans arc goes 13 episodes and started in episode 3, means it will go till episode 15. This episode we're right now talking about is episode 14. I say again your words in the writers ears and make it a brother centric episode, like "Hello Cruel World", that was a brother centric episode too, maybe 'Slash Fiction' too!

[shadowhund]

Jan 31, 2012 18:11:45 GMT -5 geordiegirl1967 said:

Jan 31, 2012 16:36:58 GMT -5 MariaARIS3 said:

Maybe because English is not my (or Shadow's) mother language we have some trouble understanding things. Because the way I got it was that Sam's fears eventually lead us to Dean's fears and this sounds a little bit like we'll end up focusing on Dean's fears again... I just don't know how else am I supposed to interpret the "which in turn leads..." quote so any clarification would be appreciated...

I would interpret it as this ep being about both boys. Sam is faced with his fear of clowns, which presumably he really struggles with. Maybe it is this that breaks down the method he has been using to keep Luci at bay. Then Dean has to face the fact that Sam may never be ok and that he might lose him. To me that sounds like a perfect ep; balanced between both boys, the drama coming from an external threat to the boys bond, loads of potential for relationship stuff, the plot turning back to how Sam is dealing mentally, protective / worried Dean. Sounds brilliant. Doesn't sound Dean centric at all to me.

I would like for you (and for me) that you are right about your prediction.
The 13 episodes Dean arc is exhausting for me and is still not finished. See I wait for it to be over, because Sam was almost cut out from it.
This wasn't neccessary and I honestly don't understand why they did cut Sam out that much, since there is no myth arc with involving the Winchesters personally except they are the only ones who knows about the threat of the Leviathans, but even young teenager girls have more fighting skills and chutzpa than the worlds best hunters. I think Deans arc goes 13 episodes and started in episode 3, means it will go till episode 15. This episode we're right now talking about is episode 14. I say again your words in the writers ears and make it a brother centric episode, like "Hello Cruel World", that was a brother centric episode, maybe 'Slash Fiction' too!