Episode 15 "Repo Man"

[SoCal]

It seems to me Dean started changing his attitude toward Sam in season 5 when Sam decided to go through with his plan to let Lucifer in and haul him into the pit. Dean was reluctant (remember he and Sam and the heartfelt discussion they had in Bobby's salvage yard?) but said he had finally realized that Sam was a grown man and was more than capable of making his own decisions. He also said that maybe he "had some growing up to do, too," since he had spent his whole life looking out for his little brother.
After dealing with soulless Sam and deciding that Sam had to have his soul back, regardless of the cost, because that was what made people human, Dean has stepped back from his "big brother" position and let them act more like equals.
But Bobby's death has hit him hard. Sam, too, but it seems Dean feels the loss more viscerally than Sam. Maybe because Sam is also dealing with Lucifer "tickling his brain pan," obscures some of his sadness in a way that Dean cannot hide.
The writers have let the characters grow and change, perhaps not always to our liking but at least they aren't having them stay perpetually 22 and 26.

[waggy3015]

Feb 19, 2012 20:37:11 GMT -5 DeanandSam said:

I see where you guys are coming from. My thing is that I am so used to seeing attentive Dean, overbearing Dean, over protective Dean, that's been the Dean I have gotten used to seeing from the past 6 seasons and even the first two episodes of this season. To have Dean do a complete 180 on this character shift is hard to accept. I MISS MY DEAN AND SAM BUT ALSO I SHOULD ACCEPT THE REALITY OF THEIR SITUATION AND THE FACT THEY ARE GROWN MEN THAT HAVE BEEN THROUGH A LOT. Still can't accept that.

I understand what you are saying. I too, am used to protective Dean and him not really doing that now, is a bit of an adjustment. I also get that characters have to change and evolve, so I can live with what we have. Doesn't mean I, or you, can't miss that side of Dean.

[ravanne]

In my mind, there is a huge difference between respecting someone as an adult and giving them the regard and space that it demands, and taking a completely hands off approach. Even if you want to completely disregard the fact that Sam and Dean are brothers and are pretty much all they have left in the world, they are also working partners and part of being in this kind of partnership is having some sense for the well-being of the person you're working with. Dean knows what Sam has kicking around in his head and even if Sam has a handle on it for now, that could change (and did change) very quickly and affect their ability to handle a job or impact their safety. It has nothing to do with Dean now wanting to treat Sam like an adult, but having an obligation to make sure that his partner stays well.

Look at it from this perspective. Say that Sam was an insulin-dependent diabetic. It is a very serious disease that requires careful monitoring and treatment so that Sam can stay healthy and continue working. Sam tells Dean that he is managing things fine, so that Dean doesn't need to worry about it for the most part. But is it wise for Dean to put it completely out of his mind? Probably not since they'd already had some very big scares about Sam's condition (re: Unforgiven and MTNB - just substitute insulin shock for Sam being overcome by the Hell memories). But Dean has a lot on his plate so Sam makes a deep concerted effort so that this wouldn't be something Dean would need to concern himself about.

Let's continue with this little experiment. Through no fault of his own and despite his best intentions, Sam is faltering in his ability to manage his disease. There are times when he's not able to monitor his blood as frequently as he needs to, or he misses taking his insulin. He's not able to eat the kind of foods that he should, or eat as often as he should in order to maintain his blood sugar levels. He's been living with the symptoms of his disease for so long that it's becoming easier for him to disregard the symptoms of something being seriously wrong until they start cascading out of control. It's not a matter of Sam not being a responsible adult and taking care of himself, but of things getting out of his control. If Dean remains unaware that Sam is having difficulties in managing his disease, things can go catastrophically bad very, very quickly.

When Sam and Dean had others in their lives to help keep and eye on things (Bobby, Jo, Ellen, etc.), it would be more understandable that they wouldn't feel the need to be so keenly aware of what was happening with one another. But they are alone now and can only depend on one another. For that reason alone, Dean cannot afford to have what's going on with Sam completely off his radar. It's not that it needs to be his primary focus every waking minute, but it's got to be something that he keeps in mind. They don't have the luxury of being careless with one another.

[amelianne]

Feb 19, 2012 23:19:39 GMT -5 waggy3015 said:

I understand what you are saying. I too, am used to protective Dean and him not really doing that now, is a bit of an adjustment. I also get that characters have to change and evolve, so I can live with what we have. Doesn't mean I, or you, can't miss that side of Dean.

Yeah I understand. See but the thing is, it's been a hard adjustment for Dean as well. This struggle with their big brother/little brother dynamic has been going on for several years and unfortunately for Dean, he has had to do the most changing. Sam has had to tell Dean several times to let him grow up and so has Bobby. So while I think it's good for Dean and Sam's relationship that they are more on an equal standing, I think it's still very difficult for Dean to "let go".

Like a parent (which Dean essentially was to Sam), it's hard to let your "kid" grow up, but you have to do it. A parent has to allow their kid to made his/her own decisions and trust that their kid will come to them when/if they need their help. I think it's a constant adjustment for the parent, and Dean, because they don't want to seem too overbearing.

Now hopefully Sam will tell Dean about how bad it is for him. I'd like to see Sam tell Dean something like: "hey, you know when I told you I was feeling good... well I'm not feeling so good right now". Or the show will have Dean see Sam struggling for himself. Because I'm sure once that happens, once Dean feels like he is allowed to take on that parent/big-brother role for Sam, then he definitely will.

I think the main thing is right now, with BOTH of the boys struggling with their post-hell trauma and current issues, they have to communicate to each other. Sam has to know that after asking him time after time to treat him like an adult and equal and not like a kid that needs to be taken care of, that Dean will be hyper-aware of how he's treating Sam. So it's up to Sam to communicate his problems to Dean. Sam has to be the one to tell Dean when he's struggling and when he needs Dean's help. He can't rely on Dean to read his mind.

Just because Dean isn't aware of Sam struggling right now doesn't mean that Dean doesn't care about Sam's well-being.

[SoCal]

Precisely.

[yimhappy]

I quit watching S7 halfway thru.
But, this was a Ben Edlund episode, plus I heard it was really good. So I watched it.
They were right. It's pretty damn good. i gave it a 9, because I'm stingy with 10s.

I really hope Sam tells Dean that he's got a problem now. I was glad to get a glimpse into what it's been like in Sam's head. Sam's POV was refreshing.

[jensenRick]

Feb 20, 2012 18:59:17 GMT -5 yimhappy said:

I quit watching S7 halfway thru.
But, this was a Ben Edlund episode, plus I heard it was really good. So I watched it.
They were right. It's pretty damn good. i gave it a 9, because I'm stingy with 10s.

I really hope Sam tells Dean that he's got a problem now. I was glad to get a glimpse into what it's been like in Sam's head. Sam's POV was refreshing.

A 9? Nice!
Sam's POV was refreshing, wasn't it? Reminds me of the good ol days.

[Tinker]

Excellent ep! I had to see it late, because I was away all weekend, but it was worth the wait. 10 from me!

[yimhappy]

Feb 19, 2012 18:49:05 GMT -5 jensenRick said:

Sam sacrificed his very sanity to rescue Dean and all I see on the boards is what a JERK Sam is for not running to Dean with his problems.

First, I have NO problem with Dean. He's exhausted and on a revenge trip. If I can't fault Sam for his single minded pursuit of Lilith, then I can't fault Dean either.

I'm surprised. I haven't been keeping up with forums, but I'm surprised to hear of complaints "Sam didn't go to Dean". I just assumed Sam thought that he had it all under control. It was only after Dean passed out from the drugs that Sam saw that he was in trouble.

More than that, I thought that this might be protective Sam. Could Sam be hiding his troubles from Dean because Sam is afraid Dean's depressed enough to get killed?? In "Slice Girls", wasn't Sam afraid Dean would let himself get killed? Handling Lucifer himself, and not adding to Dean's depression might seem life/death.

[DeanandSam]

Feb 25, 2012 13:49:31 GMT -5 yimhappy said:

Feb 19, 2012 18:49:05 GMT -5 jensenRick said:

Sam sacrificed his very sanity to rescue Dean and all I see on the boards is what a JERK Sam is for not running to Dean with his problems.

First, I have NO problem with Dean. He's exhausted and on a revenge trip. If I can't fault Sam for his single minded pursuit of Lilith, then I can't fault Dean either.

I'm surprised. I haven't been keeping up with forums, but I'm surprised to hear of complaints "Sam didn't go to Dean". I just assumed Sam thought that he had it all under control. It was only after Dean passed out from the drugs that Sam saw that he was in trouble.

More than that, I thought that this might be protective Sam. Could Sam be hiding his troubles from Dean because Sam is afraid Dean's depressed enough to get killed?? In "Slice Girls", wasn't Sam afraid Dean would let himself get killed? Handling Lucifer himself, and not adding to Dean's depression might seem life/death.

I guess you are right. Dean is depressed to a point that he can't handle Sam not being ok, if he saw the true state of Sam, that could probably be the breaking point for Dean. So maybe Sam keeping it to himself is more about protecting Dean, then purposely shutting out Dean because he thinks he can handle it himself. I think if things were different with Dean, then I am sure Sam would have let Dean in.

[jensenRick]

Feb 25, 2012 13:49:31 GMT -5 yimhappy said:

Feb 19, 2012 18:49:05 GMT -5 jensenRick said:

Sam sacrificed his very sanity to rescue Dean and all I see on the boards is what a JERK Sam is for not running to Dean with his problems.

First, I have NO problem with Dean. He's exhausted and on a revenge trip. If I can't fault Sam for his single minded pursuit of Lilith, then I can't fault Dean either.

I'm surprised. I haven't been keeping up with forums, but I'm surprised to hear of complaints "Sam didn't go to Dean". I just assumed Sam thought that he had it all under control. It was only after Dean passed out from the drugs that Sam saw that he was in trouble.

More than that, I thought that this might be protective Sam. Could Sam be hiding his troubles from Dean because Sam is afraid Dean's depressed enough to get killed?? In "Slice Girls", wasn't Sam afraid Dean would let himself get killed? Handling Lucifer himself, and not adding to Dean's depression might seem life/death.

Thank you Yim. Nice to see some consideration for both brothers.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised anymore at those who can't help always dumping the blame on Sam.

[Aeryn]

Wasn't too thrilled about the story, but loved the scenes with Sammy and Lucifier.

Mark Pellegrino is great. Subtle shades of evil, flavored with outright comedy. The guy makes me laugh out loud. His character is like a bipolar dude in love. The way he torments Sammy is just hilarious.

[ravanne]

Feb 25, 2012 13:49:31 GMT -5 yimhappy said:

I'm surprised. I haven't been keeping up with forums, but I'm surprised to hear of complaints "Sam didn't go to Dean". I just assumed Sam thought that he had it all under control. It was only after Dean passed out from the drugs that Sam saw that he was in trouble.

More than that, I thought that this might be protective Sam. Could Sam be hiding his troubles from Dean because Sam is afraid Dean's depressed enough to get killed?? In "Slice Girls", wasn't Sam afraid Dean would let himself get killed? Handling Lucifer himself, and not adding to Dean's depression might seem life/death.

Let's keep in mind that the first thing Sam overheard Bobby and Dean discussing when he woke up back in the beginning of the season was that Dean is at the end of his mental rope and was clinging to the hope that Sam was holding on okay because he couldn't handle one more thing on his already overloaded plate. That was a very powerful reason for Sam to need to handle this on his own. He was trying to protect Dean.

And for quite awhile, Sam was able to handle things. He was honest with Dean that the crazy was still there, but he was keeping a rein on it and was upright and functional. He had no reason to bring this up to Dean and every reason to try to manage on his own. Unfortunately, his control slipped right at the point where Dean wasn't focused on him and wasn't there to help.

Some of the criticisms I've read about Sam on the other boards in this matter really are out of line, including one where they accused Sam of deliberately allowing Lucifer in to become stronger and regain the power that he'd lost. Excuse me? I didn't see anything "deliberate' in that scene in the library. Lucifer was pushing every single one of Sam's buttons to get Sam to focus attention focused on him and Sam didn't rise to the bait. It was only when Sam feared that Dean was in very serious trouble that he told Lucifer to shut up and it was accidental. Unfortunately by speaking to Lucifer directly, it was acknowledging that Lucifer was a "real" as anything else around him and that's where his control slipped.

The amount of Sam hate in this fandom is really absurd. It's one thing to criticize a specific action or lack of action by a character (as I have that Dean is so unaware of just how bad off Sam is) and another when you go looking for things to rag on a character about. Sam can do absolutely nothing right with some fans. If he tries to handle things on his own to protect Dean, he's not showing Dean the respect and honesty that he deserves. If Sam opens up to Dean, he's trying to tie Dean down emotionally when Dean needs to focus his attention elsewhere. It's really sad that they claim to love the show but hold one of its two main characters with so much disdain.

[waggy3015]

Feb 28, 2012 8:38:17 GMT -5 ravanne said:

Feb 25, 2012 13:49:31 GMT -5 yimhappy said:

I'm surprised. I haven't been keeping up with forums, but I'm surprised to hear of complaints "Sam didn't go to Dean". I just assumed Sam thought that he had it all under control. It was only after Dean passed out from the drugs that Sam saw that he was in trouble.

More than that, I thought that this might be protective Sam. Could Sam be hiding his troubles from Dean because Sam is afraid Dean's depressed enough to get killed?? In "Slice Girls", wasn't Sam afraid Dean would let himself get killed? Handling Lucifer himself, and not adding to Dean's depression might seem life/death.

Let's keep in mind that the first thing Sam overheard Bobby and Dean discussing when he woke up back in the beginning of the season was that Dean is at the end of his mental rope and was clinging to the hope that Sam was holding on okay because he couldn't handle one more thing on his already overloaded plate. That was a very powerful reason for Sam to need to handle this on his own. He was trying to protect Dean.

And for quite awhile, Sam was able to handle things. He was honest with Dean that the crazy was still there, but he was keeping a rein on it and was upright and functional. He had no reason to bring this up to Dean and every reason to try to manage on his own. Unfortunately, his control slipped right at the point where Dean wasn't focused on him and wasn't there to help.

Some of the criticisms I've read about Sam on the other boards in this matter really are out of line, including one where they accused Sam of deliberately allowing Lucifer in to become stronger and regain the power that he'd lost. Excuse me? I didn't see anything "deliberate' in that scene in the library. Lucifer was pushing every single one of Sam's buttons to get Sam to focus attention focused on him and Sam didn't rise to the bait. It was only when Sam feared that Dean was in very serious trouble that he told Lucifer to shut up and it was accidental. Unfortunately by speaking to Lucifer directly, it was acknowledging that Lucifer was a "real" as anything else around him and that's where his control slipped.

The amount of Sam hate in this fandom is really absurd. It's one thing to criticize a specific action or lack of action by a character (as I have that Dean is so unaware of just how bad off Sam is) and another when you go looking for things to rag on a character about. Sam can do absolutely nothing right with some fans. If he tries to handle things on his own to protect Dean, he's not showing Dean the respect and honesty that he deserves. If Sam opens up to Dean, he's trying to tie Dean down emotionally when Dean needs to focus his attention elsewhere. It's really sad that they claim to love the show but hold one of its two main characters with so much disdain.

Good post ravanne. I especially agree with your first two paragraphs about why Sam held it in and didn't tell Dean.

[cas4s8]

I couldn't remember what happened in this episode so I had to go back to a forum where I wrote a review. The condensed version: "Good to see some advancement with Sam's situation. Classy episode."

So, it can have a 9.

[Lostcause]

I liked Repo Man, was good to see Lucy again!

After the atrocity that was Slice Girls the last 2 episodes have stepped up in the writing.

In the clown episode we get the first shared laugh between the brothers in blah I can't recall the last time we had that actually. Repo Man then follows up with what at first seems like a "thank you" story from an aftermath of a demon possession (how great was that, to get the old skool hunting and exorcism back) - then turning into a sicko serial killer story.

Sam letting Lucy in was the best plot movement of the season. Wether that's a sad nod to how little has gone on or to how great Lucy and Sam are together I can't say. Probably a bit of coloumn A and B.

This break can go burn in purgatory! I want to see what happens next!

[cas4s8]

The smart money's on Column A. JSYK.