avp60685
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Post by avp60685 on Aug 21, 2012 9:20:03 GMT -5
I am on chapter 7 now!!
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Post by AntiArbitrator on Aug 21, 2012 19:14:16 GMT -5
OK, now I am convinced we are still dealing with it. The movie "Chronicle" looks exciting, so I went to YouTube to read the comments on the trailer. Here's one.
"I would watch this movie if there wasn't a nigger in it.
lilmantothemax2 1 week ago "
warning about the comment says: This comment has received too many negative votes show. Click to show.
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Mistermoonlight
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Post by Mistermoonlight on Aug 21, 2012 20:02:03 GMT -5
No doubt. And the scary thing is that much of it is kids. I think some of it has to do with the anonymous quality of the internet. And it's not just racism, it's sexism aimed at both women and gays as well. Anything 'different' is fair game.
But I don't have any doubts that it's not simply confined to online behaviour. Or that other age groups participate in it. What that says about us as a species is really scary.
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avp60685
SuperMod
I go by many titles but FRIEND is a favorite!
Writing is part of my blood and D.N.A.
Posts: 27,144
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Post by avp60685 on Aug 22, 2012 8:49:50 GMT -5
People are definately very hateful these days and it goes to show
that racism is still alive and kicking!
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Post by gilmorefanalways on Aug 23, 2012 17:40:57 GMT -5
I thought perhaps after each chapter we could write our opinion and predictions for what you think might happen i know a few of us are on diff chapters myself included it has been a busy week but at the beginning of our posts we could put spoiler alerts ex: chap 7 spoiler alert then go on to say whatever you felt. We can express what we thought of the events in the chap our predictions and amything else really that you want
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Post by gilmorefanalways on Aug 23, 2012 17:43:34 GMT -5
I also figured since we discuss our weekly reading on fridays and Saturdays that i could assign our chapters for the new week then
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avp60685
SuperMod
I go by many titles but FRIEND is a favorite!
Writing is part of my blood and D.N.A.
Posts: 27,144
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Post by avp60685 on Aug 24, 2012 8:19:21 GMT -5
Sounds good dear Jennifer!
I am going to post some of my thoughts on Chapters 3-8 while it is still fresh in my mind:
Chapter 3
I really liked Celia and her interactions with Minny! Celia may be not a great cook and housewife but she is willing to let Minny teach her the ropes so to speak and that is pretty gutsy. I mean if a white woman didn't know what she was doing in that time period, she would ask her mother or some other white woman. The fact that Celia is letting Minny take charge is a brave and bold move and highly commendable!
Thoughts on what I thought Chapter 4 was going to be about:
I thought it would probably tell of Aibileen's thoughts on Minny being the new maid for Celia and how Elizabeth/Leefolt feels about it.
Chapter 4:
This chapter basically expands on Minny's housekeeping duties and how she has a close-call with Johnny! Kindra who is one of Minny's children is a bit of a brat and I wasn't happy with the way she treats her mother. She obviously is like her father Leroy because she obviously thinks it is okay to sass her mother! On a side note: I think that sassing a parent is wrong and was always told "Don't you sass me!" by my parents and because of that I learned to hold my tongue, if I didn't like something I just shut up about it, if I liked something I would say "Thank you, I really enjoyed that." Unfortunately too many young people do not know that you should not sass your elders and because of this being true, I think that is why they think they can act any old way to them! Back to the chapter, I would love to try Minny's cooking when she said she made a peach cobbler and some fried okra, it sounds delicious and is obviously a typical southern type of dish because I know I have grown up eating fried okra which is good eating especially if it is fresh okra!
Thoughts for Chapter 5:
I think that Minny is going to give that Kindra a piece of her mind and how she manages to escape the guest bathroom! Also I think that Celia is going to have to find another way to get Minny to leave undetected by Johnny.
Chapter 5:
Skeeter is narrating this chapter and tells of her memories of growing up taller than the other boys in town. It also tells of her job search and how it is hard for a southern white female to find work. On a side note I know that job hunting is hard even in today's time but I am sure it was much harder back in the 1960s! Back to the chapter: I thought at first Hilly and Elizabeth were her sisters but it turns out that no, they are not but just very good friends who grew up together. Also I love how she listens and learns from Constantine about how not all blacks look the same, they can be mixed with white blood. On another side note, I know that the blacks did intermarry with Native Americans and also whites but it was against the law at one point so the fact that my own relatives didn't get into trouble with the law is truly remarkable! You see, my great grandmother on my mom's side of the family was 1/2 Cherokee Indian and yet she married a white man who had English blood in him, this was in the early part of the 1920s in case you were wondering when this took place. I stand back and am amazed that here it is my own great grandmother had about 5 children before she died at 35, she was older than my great grandfather and yet still she married despite of her Native American background to someone who was not Native American!
Thoughts for chapter 6:
I think that Skeeter is going perhaps find some work and perhaps find out why Constantine went missing from her life!
Chapter 6:
Skeeter continues her narration and receives a letter for an opportunity to use her writing skills which is a chance of a lifetime! She talks to Leefolt about talking to Aibileen on getting household tips so she can use them in her column. On a side note: Reminds me of Ask Heloise that appears weekly in the newspapers! Back to the chapter: Things are starting to heat up in the political scene and it obviously makes Skeeter's mother uncomfortable at the idea of it! I guess it can be pretty frightening but sometimes you just have to take the risks! Also Skeeter is starting to brainstorm an awesome idea and Aibileen is talking more about her son Treelore and how he liked to write which I think is what helped Skeeter brainstorm her idea.
Thoughts for chapter 7:
I think Skeeter is going to reveal her big idea and we'll get more household tips from Aibileen in this chapter.
Chapter 7:
Aibileen is narrating in this chapter and she tells of her potty training Mae Mobley and how Leefolt views the bathroom that has been built outside as dirty and diseased! It made me angry to hear her say such things, I want to scream and throw the book at her and say "How dare you!" I calmed down a little when Skeeter tells of what her big idea is which is to write a book from the help's point of view. Aibileen points out that this is dangerous and she is right because no one has ever dare to come up with such an idea. It would be a radical book similar to Uncle Tom's Cabin which had been written in the Civil War years. Can they pull it off or will they get caught? Skeeter has the perfect quote for this "We'd be breaking new ground. It's a brand-new perspective." Aibileen is scared to do it but will she?
Thoughts for chapter 8:
I think that Skeeter is going to convince Aibileen that they can pull off this idea and that it can be done.
Chapter 8:
Skeeter is back to narrating and she is trying to pay Aibileen for helping her with her column but Aibileen is refusing the money. I think she is scared that Elizabeth/Leefolt will think that she has stolen it and it would appear that way but I respect Skeeter by wanting to do the right thing! The chapter ends with Skeeter's mom fixing her hair with this new fancy gadget.
Thoughts for chapter 9:
I think the chapter is going to tell of Aibileen finally decide to change her mind and help Skeeter with her book idea and that Celia is going to get better at cooking and keeping up the house with Minny's help!
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Post by gilmorefanalways on Aug 24, 2012 16:59:01 GMT -5
Had a very unsettling experience today involving racism
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avp60685
SuperMod
I go by many titles but FRIEND is a favorite!
Writing is part of my blood and D.N.A.
Posts: 27,144
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Post by avp60685 on Aug 24, 2012 17:36:05 GMT -5
Awwww I am sorry to hear that Jennifer!
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Mistermoonlight
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Crystal the Monkey Fan Club
"The dreamers ride against the men of action. Oh see the men of action falling back."--Leonard Cohen
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Post by Mistermoonlight on Aug 24, 2012 18:08:20 GMT -5
In Chapter 3 we are introduced to Minny's new boss Celia Foote, who doesn't operate by the standard class rules in dealing with Minny. In fact she seems to treat her as more of an equal by inviting her to sit down while Celia gets her a cold drink. She seems to not know much about cooking and cleaning, either, so we're left to wonder if perhaps she just 'doesn't know' about race relations as well. Or is it a conscious choice?
What is going on with her that she needs to 'stay still' and spends so much time upstairs?
I get the feeling that Celia, being from such a hard background is a person who would have been called 'poor white trash,' except for the fact that she was blessed with beauty, and is described as looking like Marilyn Monroe.
I at first loved the name of the town Celia is from, 'Sugar Ditch.' Then I did a little research and found this out:
"Tunica is a town in Tunica County, Mississippi, located near the Mississippi River. Until the early 1990s the town was one of the most impoverished places in the United States, semi-famous for the particularly deprived neighborhood known as "Sugar Ditch Alley", named for the open sewer located there."
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Post by AntiArbitrator on Aug 24, 2012 18:23:14 GMT -5
Ch. 3 – Minny
Chapter 3 is told in the 1st person by Minny. Minny speaks in an informal but more modern style than Aibileen. She is short and fat with a sassy mouth that gets her into trouble with her employers (unless they are hard of hearing). Her first day on her first job she was fired after saying what was on her mind.
When she meets her prospective employer, she refuses to shake her hand – not because she is shy, but because she does not want to get any mess on her. When Miss Celia Rae Foote tries to shake Minny’s hand and offers her a seat and something to drink, Minny knew something was not right. In spite of her resolve to not say much, Minny cannot help herself.
It’s obvious that Miss Celia has never had a housekeeper and it seems she never did any household chores herself. She has received so much rejection that kindness from a maid makes her feel grateful. She’s from the poorest section and has married a man of wealth. She cleared the mess of clothes out of sight so the new maid would not see them and be scared off. She is very anxious to learn to cook and wants her husband to think she is worth it. She married Mister Johnny who went steady with Miss Hilly for years. She must be a little naïve to think Hilly will be receptive to her calls.
This chapter describes two more of the characters in depth. Minny is the sassy, almost brazen, house servant who reminds me of the Jeffersons’ maid.
Celia is the poor person who has moved up in station but will not be accepted by the women of that class. She lacks self-confidence and depends on Minny to teach her what she needs to know. She also has a secret. I’m not sure the author is doing a good job of entertaining us with “the secret”.
Rules for Maids
Minny’s mother is a maid and let her go to work at the age of 14. She taught her:
1. Don’t meddle in white lady’s business and don’t tell her your problems; white people are not your friends.
2. Don’t ever let the White Lady find you sitting on her toilet.
3. When cooking, use a different spoon for tasting.
4. Use same cup, same fork, and same plate every day.
5. Eat in the kitchen.
6. Don’t hit on her children.
7. No sass-mouthing.
Notable lines:
Minny thinks: She “wears enough makeup to scare a hooker”.
Minny: “Why I got to hand wash when the power washer gone do the job? That’s the biggest waste a time I ever heard of.”
Minny: “Why you think I drove all the way out here to kingdom come, just to burn gas?”
Minny: “A course you need a maid. Last one done got shot in the head.”
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Post by AntiArbitrator on Aug 24, 2012 18:29:19 GMT -5
In Chapter 3 we are introduced to Minny's new boss Celia Foote, who doesn't operate by the standard class rules in dealing with Minny. In fact she seems to treat her as more of an equal by inviting her to sit down while Celia gets her a cold drink. She seems to not know much about cooking and cleaning, either, so we're left to wonder if perhaps she just 'doesn't know' about race relations as well. Or is it a conscious choice? What is going on with her that she needs to 'stay still' and spends so much time upstairs? I get the feeling that Celia, being from such a hard background is a person who would have been called 'poor white trash,' except for the fact that she was blessed with beauty, and is described as looking like Marilyn Monroe. I at first loved the name of the town Celia is from, 'Sugar Ditch.' Then I did a little research and found this out: "Tunica is a town in Tunica County, Mississippi, located near the Mississippi River. Until the early 1990s the town was one of the most impoverished places in the United States, semi-famous for the particularly deprived neighborhood known as "Sugar Ditch Alley", named for the open sewer located there." I should not have been eating when I viewed that video clip. That looks recent. I now have a clearer image of where Celia came from. And I can see why she was not uppity like the other women. |
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Mistermoonlight
Administrator
Crystal the Monkey Fan Club
"The dreamers ride against the men of action. Oh see the men of action falling back."--Leonard Cohen
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Post by Mistermoonlight on Aug 24, 2012 18:33:26 GMT -5
Writing comedy is hard work, and to pull it off in a novel about the beginnings of the Civil Rights Movement and all of the violence and hate of that era earns kudos from me. It's no easy task, yet Stockett does it in a way that deepens both our insight and admiration for the characters Minny and Aibileen. I think Aibileen gets one of the funniest lines I've ever read in chapter 6 when she says 'just pour some pneumonia in that garbage can.' ![]() |
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Post by gilmorefanalways on Aug 24, 2012 18:41:26 GMT -5
Thank u avp u r very sweet, ive had a busy week and such a bad day today that unfortunately i am still behind in the book i am sorry for this
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Post by AntiArbitrator on Aug 24, 2012 18:45:34 GMT -5
Thank u avp u r very sweet, ive had a busy week and such a bad day today that unfortunately i am still behind in the book i am sorry for this Would you like to share your experience regarding racism? It might make you feel better. Sorry it caused you concern. |
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Mistermoonlight
Administrator
Crystal the Monkey Fan Club
"The dreamers ride against the men of action. Oh see the men of action falling back."--Leonard Cohen
Posts: 8,508
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Post by Mistermoonlight on Aug 24, 2012 18:45:37 GMT -5
That's ok. I was behind on The Great Gatsby myself, remember?
How far did you get?
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Post by AntiArbitrator on Aug 24, 2012 18:52:08 GMT -5
MisterMoonlight, that "pneumonia" line really was funny.
Ch. 4
Minny teaches Celia to cook. I am not convinced that an adult would burn a pot of beans when she has nothing else to do, but Celia did say her family never had a real stove. Minny does not believe the excuse Celia gives for not going out. The only reason I can think of for Celia lying down so much is if she is pregnant. But if she is pregnant, why is she keeping it secret?
In the meantime, Minny is very worried that the husband will come home and harm her. Both Minny and Celia were frightened when Minny saw the white man approaching. Minny hid in the bathroom, crouched on the toilet seat. She was fearful that Celia might pretend she was a burglar. After all, Hilly had lied on her. So Minny had no reason to trust a white woman who seemed afraid to tell her husband what was going on.
Minny is five foot nothing and 165 pounds. The image of her balancing on a toilet seat is very funny. Poor woman.
Notable lines:
Minny: “Because ain’t that white people for you, wondering if they are happy enough.”
If she (Minny) had played Mammy, she would have told Scarlett to stick those green draperies up her white little pooper.
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Mistermoonlight
Administrator
Crystal the Monkey Fan Club
"The dreamers ride against the men of action. Oh see the men of action falling back."--Leonard Cohen
Posts: 8,508
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Post by Mistermoonlight on Aug 24, 2012 19:06:48 GMT -5
And now let me also chastize the author. The moment Skeeter utters the phrase 'I want to be a writer' in chapter 5 I said loudly 'Oh no...'
Because then we know. The character is Stockett herself, and she is inserting herself into the book as the hero. I thought to myself 'how dare she?' It's a mistake that many first-time writers make, and unfortunately she's not good enough to pull it off by simply changing the era to the early 60s.
That said, it can be done--no rule in writing can't be broken as long as you know what you're doing. F. Scott Fitzgerald and Hemingway did it all the time. But you have to be much better than her to pull it off believably, and from that moment on I knew the author was intruding upon the story herself.
She will be the fulcrum between the black and white characters in the book.
In this chapter we also learn that Constantine's daddy was white.
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Post by AntiArbitrator on Aug 24, 2012 19:40:03 GMT -5
And now let me also chastize the author. The moment Skeeter utters the phrase 'I want to be a writer' in chapter 5 I said loudly 'Oh no...' Because then we know. The character is Stockett herself, and she is inserting herself into the book as the hero. I thought to myself 'how dare she?' It's a mistake that many first-time writers make, and unfortunately she's not good enough to pull it off by simply changing the era to the early 60s. That said, it can be done--no rule in writing can't be broken as long as you know what you're doing. F. Scott Fitzgerald and Hemingway did it all the time. But you have to be much better than her to pull it off believably, and from that moment on I knew the author was intruding upon the story herself. I think by inserting herself into the story, we will receive some of Stockett's own personal views instead of a story that is totally fictionalized.
She obviously is like her father Leroy because she obviously thinks it is okay to sass her mother! I interpreted Kindra's behavior as being sassy like her mother, based on the following. Minny thought: But Kindra, Lord. It's not just a phase I'm seeing. That girl is turning out just like me. |
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Post by gilmorefanalways on Aug 24, 2012 20:00:56 GMT -5
I do not think ill be on anymore tonight today has hurt and saddened me
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Mistermoonlight
Administrator
Crystal the Monkey Fan Club
"The dreamers ride against the men of action. Oh see the men of action falling back."--Leonard Cohen
Posts: 8,508
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Post by Mistermoonlight on Aug 24, 2012 20:03:16 GMT -5
Do you want to tell us what happened?
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Mistermoonlight
Administrator
Crystal the Monkey Fan Club
"The dreamers ride against the men of action. Oh see the men of action falling back."--Leonard Cohen
Posts: 8,508
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Post by Mistermoonlight on Aug 24, 2012 20:13:21 GMT -5
I propose we hold off the rest of our discussion till tomorrow, when hopefully Gilmorefanalways may feel more like taking part. What say you?
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Post by AntiArbitrator on Aug 24, 2012 20:16:36 GMT -5
I propose we hold off the rest of our discussion till tomorrow, when hopefully Gilmorefanalways may feel more like taking part. What say you? I agree 100%. At 7:45, I urged her to share what happened and I continue to hope that she will. |
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Post by gilmorefanalways on Aug 25, 2012 12:06:29 GMT -5
We should read on to 13
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avp60685
SuperMod
I go by many titles but FRIEND is a favorite!
Writing is part of my blood and D.N.A.
Posts: 27,144
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Post by avp60685 on Aug 27, 2012 6:03:17 GMT -5
Okay hope you are doing some better Jennifer! I like how the discussion is going so far!
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Post by AntiArbitrator on Aug 27, 2012 6:53:32 GMT -5
CHAPTER 5 SPOILERAVP,  I read the following comment with interest and wonder if you are combining facts from the movie with facts from the book because Constantine's parents were not married in the book..
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avp60685
SuperMod
I go by many titles but FRIEND is a favorite!
Writing is part of my blood and D.N.A.
Posts: 27,144
|
Post by avp60685 on Aug 27, 2012 11:32:49 GMT -5
CHAPTER 5 SPOILERAVP, ![]() I read the following comment with interest and wonder if you are combining facts from the movie with facts from the book because Constantine's parents were not married in the book.. I didn't say Constantine's parents were married, I said she had family that had intermarried, I wasn't not referring to her parents per say. And no, I wasn't referring to the movie at all in this case, it was just a general statement! |
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Post by AntiArbitrator on Aug 27, 2012 11:38:30 GMT -5
AVP, now I am really confused. How do you know she had family that intermarried? Is that in the book? That would be an important element.
P.S. Does the exclamation mark in your statement indicate you are irritated by the question? If so, I will not ask you any more questions. I am just trying to discuss the book and exchange points of view.
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avp60685
SuperMod
I go by many titles but FRIEND is a favorite!
Writing is part of my blood and D.N.A.
Posts: 27,144
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Post by avp60685 on Aug 27, 2012 11:46:47 GMT -5
In the book I get impression that they are indeed married, I mean I know they aren't married but they had a common-law marriage and a lot of people consider that to be a real marriage as if you had gotten married.
P.S. No, I wasn't angry, I just didn't want to keep putting period after period in my statements so I changed it up by adding an exclaimation point, sorry if it came across if I was mad at you. I really love your questions because they make me think.
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Post by AntiArbitrator on Aug 27, 2012 11:52:22 GMT -5
In the book I get impression that they are indeed married, I mean I know they aren't married but they had a common-law marriage and a lot of people consider that to be a real marriage as if you had gotten married. P.S. No, I wasn't angry, I just didn't want to keep putting period after period in my statements so I changed it up by adding an exclaimation point, sorry if it came across if I was mad at you. I really love your questions because they make me think. I think it would help if you reread that paragraph. Then you would understand why I asked you about intermarriage. Her father visited one day per week. That is not a common law marriage. If your statement had not covered a very important issue, I would not have questioned it. I hope you understand. |
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