The Help by Kathryn Stockett

[gilmorefanalways]

Thanks moon:) i am behind as well its hard for me to wanna read this book nonstop I already started and finished another book in about a week lol if you guys want we can use next week as our catch up week

[avp60685]

I am very behind, I am still on chapter 14

[Mistermoonlight]

Time to get this show back on the road. I'm up to chapter 14 now. Jen, you gonna be here tonight to lead us?

[Mistermoonlight]

I'd like to speak now towards my parents. I was born in the late 50s, and by my second year we had moved back to the small town in south Alabama I grew up in. My dad was a twin, and he and his brother had a dream, to follow their own insterests that had to do with fishing and hunting, and in 1959 they built a store along the area to the best fishing spots.

It was very successful and quickly became the point at which everyone in my town came to hang out and have coffee: judges, lawyers, you name it. .

One of my first memories is a black man who was working on building the store. I wish I could remember his name. For his lunch one day he had opened a can of Van Camps pork and beans. He fed me most of his own lunch with a spoon.

I remember a couple of other things. As my daddy drove us out towards the family log cabin where they had all been born, one day, there was a chain gang working on the side of the road. He took a pack of cigarettes and threw them to a black man working beside the road. He said he was a friend of his.

There was another night when we were on the same road, and there was fog all around, and he told me they were clouds. When I asked for a drink of his Coke in the cup he had, I took a sip and went YUCK! I asked him what it was and he said 'booze.'

Unfortunately, when I was my six years old my daddy died one night of a massive heart attack.

My mother never recovered. She escaped into religion. But, before that happened, I remember her telling us one time of seeing black people in a car eating fried chicken and throwing the bones out of the window. She followed that with a terrible racist statement .

Yet, another time, I caught her singling along with the radio to "I can't Stop Loving You" by Ray Charles. For a year or two she would continue to call the top 40 music I loved "N----- music."

Within the year, she would marry a man named Bob who worked with International Paper Company. He was not good at making emotional relationship with children. He was full of rules and regulations.

But, he was a fan of Nat King Cole, and tried to go to a concert when he was in college that was cancelled because of racial threats. I never heard Bob say a single racist comment in his life. When my brother and I were kids we could always tell when Bob was coming over, because my mother would put on the Nat King Cole's Greatest hits album she had bought.

When my mother escaped into religion, my stepfather Bob followed along, and the one issue I can see that made them bigger than they were was the issue of race.

My mother's closest friend from the 80s on, was a black lady in Brookhaven, MS, and I'm sorry that I can't recall her name. My stepfather, Bob's, best friend was a black minister.

My mother developed Alzheimer's and my father, Bob, almost killed himself trying to take care of her, until I came over to help and spent the last few years of his life with him. Of course, we had to put her in a nursing home when things got really bad, and that almost killed us both.

A few years later she died, and my father did a couple of years later. They had joined a local Baptist church here, and the white preacher conducted both services, but the black minister who knew them both and loved them came over and was given a spot in the service. Thank God for him. He knew them both like no one else did, and his were the only words that mattered.

They went the whole route in south Alabama from racism to love. I learned so many things from them, but particularly that.

[gilmorefanalways]

Im sorry i missed tonight where is everyone in the book? I am fine to use a few days as catch up?

[gilmorefanalways]

Moon thank you for sharing that story, i wanted to say to you that I like your writing something very writerish about it

[Mistermoonlight]

What a great compliment. Thank you my friend, 'writerish' I will accept!

One thing we learn in writing is how to tell a story, and the mechanics behind it, which we call the arc. It's not that hard to do once you know the rules.

[gilmorefanalways]

Teach me! I couldnt think of a better word and i thought writerish was better than authorish lol

[Mistermoonlight]

There are several things a story has to have to make it feel like a complete to us. Of course there's the simple, a beginning, a middle and an end. But it's more complex than that.

That's why the middle is always the hardest. There must be some struggle against opposing forces here. Your characters should grow in some way, be changed.

If you do it correctly, the end practically writes itself. For me, the language of the third act needs poetry, something that helps us transcend, and if we are lucky, something that resonates long after the story is over. It's the kind of experience that makes you think about a novel or a short story long after it's over. It continues to live within you.

The only other tip I can give you is to begin things not at the start, but in the middle of the action. Look it up, it's called 'in media res.' Then reveal the background in flashbacks. It's the easiest way to quickly hook the reader.

I did not do that in my parents story, mostly because it's not a work of fiction to me, and I didn't see that structuring the story in anything less than its natural progression as being as important as the message. In other words, the less I screw around with it the better.

It is their life and it stands as it is with no literary tricks to expand or contract the story. And it's strong enough that it doesn't need them.

[AntiArbitrator]

MisterMoonlight, thank you for sharing the story of your family. It contains a powerful message that people's views can be shaped and reshaped as they continue life's journeys. Your story needs to be told. It has erased the negative images of racism in Mississippi I have been brainwashed with my entire life.

---

If no problems arise, I will work on some book summaries tonight.

[Mistermoonlight]

I was lucky enough to learn to love them, and somewhere along the line to learn how it could be done. It was hard. And all I have now is their words and story that continue to echo in my soul.

I am mindful of the fact that is their story, and not mine. But I'll share something that conveys how I feel when I tell it. It's also, to me, an example of the perfect ending for a story. I hope someday to write something as beautiful as this. These are the last lines in "A River Runs Throught it" by Norman McClean:

"Like many fly fishermen in western Montana where the summer days are almost Arctic in length, I often do not start fishing until the cool of the evening. Then in the Arctic half-light of the canyon, all existence fades to a being with my soul and memories and the sounds of the Big Blackfoot River and a four-count rhythm and the hope that a fish will rise. Eventually, all things merge into one, and a river runs through it.

The river was cut by the world's great flood and runs over rocks from the basement of time. On some of those rocks are timeless raindrops. Under the rocks are the words, and some of the words are theirs. I am haunted by waters."

[gilmorefanalways]

Sorry again for not being here i had changed my email on here but accidentally added a letter at the end of my email so i never got the activation code lol and just figured this out now lol

[AntiArbitrator]

As MisterMoonlight said, it is time to get this show back on the road.

Chapter 5
Skeeter describes her relationship with Constantine as a nurturing one, plus her nanny was her ally and confidante. Constantine helped shape Skeeter’s realization that she could make her own choices and she could choose what she wanted to believe. It surprises me that although her mother obviously believes the colored people are inferior, Skeeter was permitted to go to Constantine’s home and play with the children. I think learning that Constantine had a white father was a revelation to Skeeter and the thought that the races mixed had never entered her mind. Apparently she never read any of the Mandingo book series.

*Mandingo is a novel by Kyle Onstott, published in 1957. The book is set in the 1830s in the antebellum South primarily around Falconhurst, a fictional plantation in Alabama owned by the planter Warren Maxwell. The narrative centers on Maxwell, his son Hammond, and the Mandingo (or Mandinka) slave Ganymede, or Mede. It is a tale of cruelty toward the blacks of that time, detailing vicious fights, poisoning, and violent death. *

It is interesting to note that Wikipedia's description does not mention that the book was really about intimate relationships between slaves and the mistress of the house. It appears that even now, it may be taboo to put that in the description, but look at the movie poster.



Skeeter’s mother is a traditional mother who believes her daughter should want to do what she was bred to do. I think the mother’s idea of what will attract a husband causes her to worry that her daughter will remain unmarried. Therefore, she nags her to camouflage her physical shortcoming, which is her height, and to make her daughter more attractive, a $25,000 trust fund was set up for her.
MisterMoonlight, would the equivalent of $188,000 make a woman more attractive as a mate?

[AntiArbitrator]

Chapter 6
While chapter 5 described the nurturing relationship, chapter 6 gives many instances of remarks that reflected Skeeter’s mother thought colored people were inferior.

• I think saying that you cannot leave a colored man and woman alone together to shuck peas was like comparing them to rutting animals.
  
• When Skeeter’s mom did not respond favorably to her securing a job, Skeeter’s comment linking Jameso, the help, to possibly being of interest to her mother was a good, monumental insult.
  
• I think it would have made more sense for Mrs. Phelan to be upset about the subject matter on the TV, but she seemed more upset that her daughter was standing near the maid while they watched TV at the same time.
  

After Skeeter got a job writing the Myrna column, her frequent contact with Aibileen led to her learning that Constantine was let go. When questioned, her mother said it was a colored thing, and that was the end of it. My mind went directly to an affair between Constantine and the father. I was very suspicious that Constantine was let go after her daughter visited the house. Skeeter also learned that Treelore was writing a story about colored people working for white people.

Chapter 7
Mae Mobley’s relationship with Aibileen mirrors Skeeter’s with Constantine. Elizabeth said many unkind things to Mae Mobley, and I am glad that Aibileen made great effort to counteract those messages. The potty training episode highlighted how children are taught that colored people are both inferior and diseased. Although it is not stated in the book, I think Elizabeth’s mistreatment of the child is one of the reasons Elizabeth’s hateful lessons do not stick. The other reason is Aibileen constantly gave her positive reinforcement.

I do not personally recall being barred from shopping at any supermarkets, but I do recall people saying the groceries delivered to black neighborhoods were of poorer quality. Lack of transportation was probably one of the reasons we were not exposed to that issue.

Robert was attacked and beaten by two white men for using the wrong bathroom. I don’t think that was legal, but I doubt anything will be done about it. Robert became blind as a result of the beating.

Chapter 8
Stein is interested in a book about colored maids and their white employers but is well aware of the danger. Skeeter carries her information in a red satchel, and it seems the color red is an indication of danger. I think Aibileen’s reluctance to help with the book showed a good sense of self-preservation.

Hilly knows when she is making insulting comments to the maids; for example, she said “You make the best colored coffee in town.” Is there a difference? And she put Aibileen in the embarrassing position of saying “thank you” for the toilet.

Chapter 9
Sometimes I think the author goes to extremes to get her point across. Skeeter’s date had to be the worst date ever for polite society and her friends did not rescue her.

Hilly’s rudeness did one good thing. It made Aibileen angry enough to help with the book.


Chapter 10
Although it was the meter man who showed up at the house instead of Johnny, I think Minny has a right to be upset and insist Celia tell him about having a maid. Celia said she wanted Johnny to think of her as worthy, but that fails logic because the women in Johnny’s family all had maids. None of her excuses make sense to me.

When Aibileen approached Minny about the book, Minny declined but she thought about how much she had always wanted to tell white folks the truth about themselves.

Celia’s illness causes her to snap at Minny, but she apologizes. I’m sure not many maids received apologies from their mistresses.

When Johnny came home and scared Minny, she was so sure he was going to start swinging the ax. Although it was comic relief, her reaction also highlighted that Minny believed white people could abuse/kill coloreds for just being in their house without permission.

Johnny knew his wife could not cook when she messed up some hamburgers. I think it lacks credibility that Celia still cannot boil water or cook anything. I think Celia feels she is not good enough for Johnny.

Chapter 11
I think it took a tremendous amount of courage for Aibileen to help Skeeter with the book. When her nerves got the best of her and she said she could not go through with it, I realized what the effort was costing her.

I was impressed with Aibileen’s cleverness when she sent a note to Skeeter saying she knew how to make the teapot stop rattling. Aibileen’s skill at writing shows what she could have accomplished if there were opportunities available.

Another thing I think is strange is that Skeeter thought the stories would be sweet and glossy. I cannot imagine why she would think that unless she only looks at the relationship between the children and the nannies. She sees how her mother treats her maid and how her friends treat their maids.

[gilmorefanalways]

Im curious are there still a few of us that are behind? Do we need the week as catch up?

[AntiArbitrator]

Sept 17, 2012 20:00:54 GMT -5 gilmorefanalways said:

Im curious are there still a few of us that are behind? Do we need the week as catch up?

I will post through Chapter 18 tomorrow. I, too, would like to know which chapters we will discuss this weekend.

[avp60685]

I am now on Chapter 19, will work on my notes soon for the chapters!

[AntiArbitrator]

Current info from most recent census:

By Tami Luhby

Mississippi has highest poverty, lowest income
Maryland has highest median household income
UPDATED 2:28 PM EDT Sep 20, 2012


Read more: www.wbaltv.com/news/money/Mississippi-has-highest-poverty-lowest-income/-/9379180/16673604/-/ib66qb/-/index.html#ixzz272MfMzV9

---

Chapter 12
The story Aibileen reveals about Treelore’s death is shocking. Of course, I have heard stories of cruelty towards people that were “troublemakers”. However, she said Treelore was injured at work, foreman put him in the back of a truck, and he was rolled off the truck bed at the hospital. Then the men drove off. People treated sick or dead animals better than that.

Skeeter’s character is changing. I think she had not thought too much pro or con about the separation of the races. She “forgot” colored people could not go to the white library, but she was willing to get the books for Aibileen. She was willing to steal the books, which is something she would not have done in the past. In addition, she lies to her mother on a daily basis and sneaks around the colored part of town at night. She resists her best friend’s insistence that she print the “Home Health Sanitation Initiative”. All of that is unusual behavior for Skeeter.

Although Minny agrees to help with the book, she is antagonistic toward Skeeter. Minny’s stories reveal white employers have not been kind to her.

Chapter 13
At first, I thought it was unkind of the parents to not display pictures of Skeeter after the age of 12, but then I realized her mother did not want to draw attention to her height or her hair. Mother considered both as deterrents to getting a husband. I think it was curiosity that drove Skeeter to listen to Stuart Whitworth’s explanation for his behavior. That’s normal. It does not seem normal for her to agree to leave the house with him after the apology.

Let me ponder the likelihood of Skeeter leaving the red satchel anywhere. She has stashed papers in the satchel that endangers herself, her family, and the people who are helping her. She has a list of Jim Crow laws in the bag and compares the laws to Hilly’s Initiative. I don’t believe getting the car home was a good enough reason to believe she would leave the satchel where Hilly would be the most likely person to retrieve it. Hilly’s behavior toward Skeeter clearly demonstrated she was angry about what she saw in the satchel.

[AntiArbitrator]

Chapter 14*
The following encounter shows that working on the book is helping Aibileen to gain courage to speak up. Hilly continues to talk about her initiative for separate toilets and puts Aibileen in an awkward position by asking leading questions about how she feels about that and other issues. For the first time, Aibileen refuses to give Hilly the answer she is fishing for when Aibileen responds that she is in favor of coloreds and whites going to the same school. Hurrah for Aibileen.

I was touched by the description of the emotions people suffered as a result of Medgar Evers’ death. My understanding today is different from the concept I had years ago of what Mayor Thompson’s “separate but equal” plan would have accomplished.

*There was public controversy over Aibileen’s statement that compared a cockroach’s blackness to her own blackness.

[AntiArbitrator]

Chapter 15
This chapter made me think about the friendship between Hilly, Elizabeth and Skeeter. Although I can see why Hilly’s take charge attitude would make her a leader of the group, I do not understand her popularity. Her personality is neither charming nor generous. She is not the life of the party and does not bring joy to a gathering. In spite of that, Elizabeth is thrilled Hilly invited her to the private club even though she expects Hilly to neglect Mae Mobley’s need for refreshments. I thought Hilly was being a good friend to Skeeter when she set her up on a date, but now I think she was more interested in her husband and Stuart being together. Skeeter probably could be a journalist after the way she stood her ground when she confronted Skeeter at the club.


Chapter 16
Sometimes the person that we are the most reluctant to approach is the one who is the easiest to talk to. Yule May was willing to discuss the book and was probably wondering why she had not been approached.

I recall during the 60s that there was a lot of discussion about the church’s involvement in what was considered to be a political matter. Dr. King had the support of his congregation and other churches wanted to follow his example. Some local congregations said they attended church to talk about god, not politics. The most popular meeting places for coloreds were bars and churches. I’m sure there were a lot of hot-air discussions in bars, but not much positive action. It was the meetings in churches and mosques that were used to form groups of travelers who joined the marches and events in Washington, DC and other places.

[AntiArbitrator]

Chapter 17
Minny’s suspicions of Celia caused her to confront Celia about drinking booze and she got fired. Her descriptions of Celia’s clothing always make me laugh. “She’s dressed in a white sweater so tight it’d make a hooker look holy.” I am glad Aibileen calmed Minny down and persuaded her to go back to work. Otherwise, her husband would have hurt her.

Chapter 18
Celia losing the baby was a horrible experience. Minny’s suspicions about booze were unfounded and a good lesson in not jumping to conclusions. I think the doctor was a jerk.

[AntiArbitrator]

Chapter 19
I think learning about incidents like Carl Roberts being cattle branded and hung from a pecan tree makes Skeeter more nervous about what she is doing. This chapter makes it clear that Hilly is vindictive and has connections to carry out her vengeance. Hilly caused Yule Mae to get a stricter jail term than she should have. 15 minute trial within 24 hours of being arrested is ridiculous. The injustice of it led to more people volunteering to help with the book.

Of course, I did not expect all of the white women to be like Hilly. Louvenia’s mistress was more caring and kind than most and helped Louvenia when Robert was injured. I like the fact that Skeeter realized that although she knew how it was for the maids, hearing it from the maids’ mouths made it sound different. Callie’s dying mistress expressed her appreciation to her maid and Callie said she wanted white people to know it is important to say thanks.

[AntiArbitrator]

Chapter 20
When Stuart declared that he knew Skeeter would never lie to him, I thought he just does not know the unreasonable burden he was placing on anyone to live to that standard. I think Skeeter should take it as a warning that every time she mentions his ex, Stuart runs away.


Chapter 21
Hilly’s confrontation with Skeeter finally reveals she will blackmail Skeeter into printing the Initiative. I know this will not end well. It is revealing of the impact her nanny had in her life when Skeeter wondered what Constantine would think of her putting the Initiative in the newsletter.

Chapter 22
The dialect in this chapter is killing me. I had often wondered if spending so much time with the nanny confused children about their relationship. Mae Mobley thinks of Aibileen as Mama and so did other children.


Skeeter was suspiciously mysterious when she kept reminding Aibileen she would be gone for three days. Then, we found out she put a pay-back message in the newsletter along with the Initiative. I think it’s funny, but will have unwelcome consequences. I’m sure it scared Aibileen when Elizabeth’s husband started talking to her about Elizabeth.

It can be nerve-wracking to tell people bad news, so I applaud Aibileen for telling Skeeter about her friends dumping her.

[gilmorefanalways]

I say since we used this week as a catch up that we will discuss the book aa whole on Friday

[avp60685]

Well today is Friday, do you mean this Friday? I am not sure if I will be ready by then.

[AntiArbitrator]

Sept 21, 2012 1:35:53 GMT -5 gilmorefanalways said:

I say since we used this week as a catch up that we will discuss the book aa whole on Friday

Now you tell me, after I spent two days writing those chapter summaries.

[avp60685]

I need to do more reading

*hangs head in shame*

[AntiArbitrator]

Why do you think Celia hates that Mimosa tree so much? What do you think keeps them from cutting it down? Do you think they ever will?

I have been thinking about this question and I never did figure it out so I Googled information and want to share with you enough of the article to understand why anyone might want to cut it down.

"Mimosa — The Wonderful, Awful Weed
June 29, 2009 | By Steve Bender |
When anyone asks me what’s the best time to prune a mimosa, my instinctive response is, “Any time you can find a chainsaw.”
That’s very judgmental of me, I know, but heck, that’s pretty much my job. And mimosa is one of those plants you either love or you hate. I hate it now. But I used to love it.


So Why Do I Hate Mimosa Now?
Two reasons, First, like most all fast-growing trees, mimosa is notoriously short-lived, subject to many pests, and will die on you in a heartbeat. When people ask me the best way to get rid of a mimosa, I tell them to make it the focal point of their landscape and it will be gone momentarily.
Second, after the flowers fade, the tree grows hundreds of 6-inch long, bean-like, brown seedpods which hang from every branch. The seedpods persist all winter, even after the tree has dropped its leaves. Few trees look as ugly or more forlorn.

But wait! It gets worse! Each of those pods is filled with seeds and each and every one of them germinates somewhere, even in cracks in the pavement. Plant one mimosa in the yard and soon every house in the neighborhood has two or three mimosas. coming up in the fence, the middle of a bush, or by the silver propane tank."

[Mistermoonlight]

I'm only halfway through the book. Just started chapter 15. I think we lost a lot of steam when there was no one here to lead the discussion for a good while. There's no way I can be finished in time for tonight.

I'll try and read as much as I can in the next half hour, though.

[AntiArbitrator]

I think Gilmorefan meant next Friday, but that is not clear to either AVP or myself. Her message was written this morning and she did not say "today"; she said "Friday" which is why I am questioning which day.