Feelings Regarding Supernatural~Possible Spoilers

[Rose]

Okay, so I wasn't really sure how to go about beginning this thread, but I needed somewhere to express my feelings and frustrations in regards to the show at the moment. I'm sure I'm probably not the only one who feels the way that they do, and I honestly never thought I'd feel this way. I'm really disappointed with the show right now. I know I'm being a total hypocrite, and that I used to bitch at people making numerous threads complaining about the show saying how much that they hate it.

I'm not saying that it sucks. I'm not saying that I hate it. I'm just saying that I'm honestly disappointed, discouraged and upset about the direction it's going. Where is the promised focus that we were going to get on Sam's Hell or Sam's SL in general? What was the whole purpose in even killing off Bobby? Where is this alleged "Butch and Sundance" theme this season that Sera was so hellbent on, because I don't see it. When are they going to lay off of this Dean being constantly emo all of the time stuff?

Where are the brothers being closer than ever at, because I sure as hell don't see it. What is with the horribly weak writing this TV show is currently presenting? What happened to the element of family? All I see now is Sam and Dean constantly separating to go off on hunts by themselves and I'm tired of seeing the brothers separated. I know that Dean loves Sam and Sam loves Dean, but where is that bond we had back in S2/S3 at? I want it back. This doesn't have any elements of the earlier seasons to me like Sera promised and I have lost my complete faith in her and in this show. I have no more hope and no more expectations because I keep repeatedly being let down.

Take last week's episode for example. Now, you all know I'm a Sam girl, so it's going to frustrate me more than it would a Dean girl (maybe), but Sam is the one who wants to pursue Krissy and help her with her dad. Dean doesn't because he's too busy on trying to track down Dick Roman and they laid the emo on pretty thick in this episode with him too. I get that they're grieving and they have every right to, but what about Sam? I feel we got no insight into his character at all this past episode with the small exception of "I'm not okay. I want to work." *rolls over and goes to sleep*

I mean, really? And Sam is the one who went after Krissy's dad to try and save him. He even called the vetala on himself to protect Lee from getting another bite taken out of him. Yet, Krissy doesn't even acknowledge him or Sam gets no goodbye even though he killed one of the vetala and saved Dean, Lee and Krissy in the end? Why tell Dean she might go to Stanford like Sam. Sam is the one who deserved to hear that. Not Dean. And these are not potshots at Dean. It's just that I'm tired of seeing Sam sidelined. I'm tired of not seeing any emotional development for him as a character.

I'm tired of not seeing the brothers together anymore. What happened to Sam and Dean against the world when they're constantly separated. And now we have an episode coming up this Friday where Dean gets to go back in time, but not Sam? Sam is just sitting on the sidelines yet again? Even the promo for this Friday's episode showed all but one flash of Sam that if you blinked, you'd miss him. I signed up 7 seasons ago to watch a show about two brothers against the world. I didn't sign up to watch The Sam Winchester Show. I didn't sign up to watch The Dean Winchester Show.

I signed up to watch a show about these brothers and the heavy elements of family and the importance of family, and where is that? I'm not getting it... Why is it so difficult for the writers to focus on both brothers? Why is it so difficult for the writers to explore BOTH of their stories? Why can't we have those brotherly talks like we used to? Where Sam and Dean actually discussed things without making it too overly chick-flicky and they were there for each other? What happened to Dean being there for Sam? Sam has been there for him this entire season, but I have not seen Dean once ask Sam about Hell. Instead, he just refers to his brother as crazy? One flew over the cuckoo's nest?

That's not how Dean is. He should be concerned for his brother, and I personally feel that the writers have made him so wrapped up in himself and focusing on only how he feels, Sam's own issues and emotional trauma have been sidelined like always. Why can't we have both like we used to? I just don't get it... This show keeps further disappointing me as the weeks ago, and I am slowly losing my zest for it. This alone is upsetting to me because I love Jared and Jensen. I want to support them as much as I possibly can. I'm even questioning now if I want to attend ChiCon this October, because I'm so discouraged with the way things are going, and it sucks...

Anyway, sorry for my rambling. I just needed to get it off my chest. I'm not expecting anyone to agree with me or understand where I'm coming from, but if you feel discouraged with the show in your own ways, feel free to post your feelings here too.

P.S Feel free to post spoilers in here!!!

[reedusisababe]

I think it will be okay now with Dean. The ending scene pretty much told me this dude is sucking it up and he will be back to his bad ass mother fucking self in no time. I just feel it was about time though for Dean to think about himself first but he will be back on the Sammy train soon it seems.

He clearly still gives a shit about Sam, his face when Krissy was like he has not came back proved it.

I think people get like that sometimes though and it doesn't mean they don't care about the other person, they just well I don't know how to explain it, they just give up with everything.

Dean needed a refocused and I feel Frank gave it to him with that speech.

I also don't like seeing them split up either. Sam is in next weeks episode a lot more then the promo gave him credit for I found out, I can't post spoilers in this thread but I know he is in it a lot more then we saw in the promo and he's basically going to be the savior.

[purpledragon1229]

Rose (I am too lazy to type your whole name)

I did not find your post hypocritical at all. You didn't throw a temper tantrum and say"OMG it sux I'm never watching again!" and then come back next week and tell us what all you found wrong with the show you were never going to watch again.

I've always seen Sam as the more internal one so the lack of telling his story has been lost on me (I hope that made sense, it did in my head). I completely agree about the whole "woe is me" Dean. It's really really old now (he started whining in S2).

I will gladly try to explain my Sam comment if need be. Just not now, I've got the dumb so I can't brain.

[DeanandSam]

I understand what you are saying Rocket. But for me, even though the writing has't been up to par, and they are always splitting up Dean and Sam for no reason. I still will continue to watch knowing that the episode is still going to revolve around Dean and Sam, and as long as they are both in the episode, I will tune in to watch. I will admit that I watch for Sam and Dean and knowbody else, so the second we find out (which I hope it never comes to that) that one boy won't be in the episode, than I am not tuning in. I watch for both boys, not one or the other.

I think we have given up a bit on this season because we were a bit mislead in thinking the boys will be together, but the writers misguided us, and this season the boys have been split up more than I could count. It's getting old.

[Rose]

Jan 9, 2012 14:16:18 GMT -5 @reedusisababe said:

I think it will be okay now with Dean. The ending scene pretty much told me this dude is sucking it up and he will be back to his bad ass mother fucking self in no time. I just feel it was about time though for Dean to think about himself first but he will be back on the Sammy train soon it seems.

He clearly still gives a shit about Sam, his face when Krissy was like he has not came back proved it.

But that's just it. I don't want him to "suck it up" or stuff it inside because it just will eventually create more emo. I want him to learn and grow. I want him to move past it and focus on moving forward because when life's cards deal you a shitty hand, you can't sit and wallow in it forever. You have to move on. You have to keep pushing forward. You have to learn to accept the bad and not lose yourself in it. That's what I feel Dean is doing here. Or rather the writers are making Dean do, and it's not fun.

I don't like this at all. And yes, it's okay for Dean to focus on himself. I never said it wasn't, but to become so completely wrapped up in yourself that you're not even acknowledging the suffering going on from others around you just doesn't seem right to me. I've suffered from my own bouts of depression, but I've never let my own pain get in the way of focusing on my family. Particularly my sister, son and husband. I can deal with my pain while I'll help them get through their own. Why can't the writers present Dean this way for Sam?

I think people get like that sometimes though and it doesn't mean they don't care about the other person, they just well I don't know how to explain it, they just give up with everything.

Dean needed a refocused and I feel Frank gave it to him with that speech.

I also don't like seeing them split up either. Sam is in next weeks episode a lot more then the promo gave him credit for I found out, I can't post spoilers in this thread but I know he is in it a lot more then we saw in the promo and he's basically going to be the savior.

I'm sorry if my post offended you in any way as it was never my intention to offend someone, but just basically get my thoughts and feelings off my chest. I love this show so much that it's honestly heartbreaking for me to feel so discouraged and let down. And you can post spoilers here. I have no problem with that. Feel free to share what spoilers you know, because I don't really know anything beyond Sam meets up with an old friend, which I'm guessing is going to be Sheriff Jody Mills since Kim Rhodes stated she was in this episode on her Twitter.

[chloekins]

Jan 9, 2012 13:50:51 GMT -5 Rose said:

Okay, so I wasn't really sure how to go about beginning this thread, but I needed somewhere to express my feelings and frustrations in regards to the show at the moment. I'm sure I'm probably not the only one who feels the way that they do, and I honestly never thought I'd feel this way. I'm really disappointed with the show right now. I know I'm being a total hypocrite, and that I used to bitch at people making numerous threads complaining about the show saying how much that they hate it.

I'm not saying that it sucks. I'm not saying that I hate it. I'm just saying that I'm honestly disappointed, discouraged and upset about the direction it's going. Where is the promised focus that we were going to get on Sam's Hell or Sam's SL in general? What was the whole purpose in even killing off Bobby? Where is this alleged "Butch and Sundance" theme this season that Sera was so hellbent on, because I don't see it. When are they going to lay off of this Dean being constantly emo all of the time stuff?

Where are the brothers being closer than ever at, because I sure as hell don't see it. What is with the horribly weak writing this TV show is currently presenting? What happened to the element of family? All I see now is Sam and Dean constantly separating to go off on hunts by themselves and I'm tired of seeing the brothers separated. I know that Dean loves Sam and Sam loves Dean, but where is that bond we had back in S2/S3 at? I want it back. This doesn't have any elements of the earlier seasons to me like Sera promised and I have lost my complete faith in her and in this show. I have no more hope and no more expectations because I keep repeatedly being let down.

Take last week's episode for example. Now, you all know I'm a Sam girl, so it's going to frustrate me more than it would a Dean girl (maybe), but Sam is the one who wants to pursue Krissy and help her with her dad. Dean doesn't because he's too busy on trying to track down Dick Roman and they laid the emo on pretty thick in this episode with him too. I get that they're grieving and they have every right to, but what about Sam? I feel we got no insight into his character at all this past episode with the small exception of "I'm not okay. I want to work." *rolls over and goes to sleep*

I mean, really? And Sam is the one who went after Krissy's dad to try and save him. He even called the vetala on himself to protect Lee from getting another bite taken out of him. Yet, Krissy doesn't even acknowledge him or Sam gets no goodbye even though he killed one of the vetala and saved Dean, Lee and Krissy in the end? Why tell Dean she might go to Stanford like Sam. Sam is the one who deserved to hear that. Not Dean. And these are not potshots at Dean. It's just that I'm tired of seeing Sam sidelined. I'm tired of not seeing any emotional development for him as a character.

I'm tired of not seeing the brothers together anymore. What happened to Sam and Dean against the world when they're constantly separated. And now we have an episode coming up this Friday where Dean gets to go back in time, but not Sam? Sam is just sitting on the sidelines yet again? Even the promo for this Friday's episode showed all but one flash of Sam that if you blinked, you'd miss him. I signed up 7 seasons ago to watch a show about two brothers against the world. I didn't sign up to watch The Sam Winchester Show. I didn't sign up to watch The Dean Winchester Show.

I signed up to watch a show about these brothers and the heavy elements of family and the importance of family, and where is that? I'm not getting it... Why is it so difficult for the writers to focus on both brothers? Why is it so difficult for the writers to explore BOTH of their stories? Why can't we have those brotherly talks like we used to? Where Sam and Dean actually discussed things without making it too overly chick-flicky and they were there for each other? What happened to Dean being there for Sam? Sam has been there for him this entire season, but I have not seen Dean once ask Sam about Hell. Instead, he just refers to his brother as crazy? One flew over the cuckoo's nest?

That's not how Dean is. He should be concerned for his brother, and I personally feel that the writers have made him so wrapped up in himself and focusing on only how he feels, Sam's own issues and emotional trauma have been sidelined like always. Why can't we have both like we used to? I just don't get it... This show keeps further disappointing me as the weeks ago, and I am slowly losing my zest for it. This alone is upsetting to me because I love Jared and Jensen. I want to support them as much as I possibly can. I'm even questioning now if I want to attend ChiCon this October, because I'm so discouraged with the way things are going, and it sucks...

Anyway, sorry for my rambling. I just needed to get it off my chest. I'm not expecting anyone to agree with me or understand where I'm coming from, but if you feel discouraged with the show in your own ways, feel free to post your feelings here too.

Hooooo boy, you have read my mind. Every single word you said is what I have been thinking since the episode Friday.

I've been very disappointed all season with the show for exactly these same reasons. I also realized after the episode that I believe SG never intends to allow Sam to have a POV or to have either of them ever resolve their problems. For some reason she wants them wallowing in defeat and despair and forever be hopeless. If not why else did they have Frank tell Dean to suck it up, shove down the feelings and paste on a smile. Here's another person to join the ranks of John and Bobby who have told Dean he can't have emotions, he can't take time to have a little fun or to even talk to Sam about things. No, just shove those painful memories and miserable feelings down deep inside and push ahead and do the job.

I know the show is in the 7th season and is winding down but the writing has been horrible. They don't seem to have a direction they're sending the show. The Levi's were supposedly the worst thing to ever happen to the world and yet they seem very insignificant and mostly in the background.

I thought they sidelined Bobby (I refuse to say he's dead because I think he'll be back), so as to have Sam and Dean with only each other to rely on and trust. I thought it would bring them closer together and tighten their bond. But instead they still are as far apart as ever, even separating to work different jobs. Why are they doing that with the threat of the Levi's supposedly hot on their butts? They were supposed to be Butch and Sundance. That's a joke because they aren't even close to Butch and Sundance.

The show is mired in hopelessness and despair. People need to have hope for our heros to prevail and right now I just don't see any way that's going to happen not when Sam and Dean themselves can't find anything in themselves to have hope for. They used to feel that as long as they were together they were content. That's not true anymore either and it makes me sad.

[Rose]

Jan 9, 2012 14:18:47 GMT -5 purpledragon1229 said:

Rose (I am too lazy to type your whole name)

I did not find your post hypocritical at all. You didn't throw a temper tantrum and say"OMG it sux I'm never watching again!" and then come back next week and tell us what all you found wrong with the show you were never going to watch again.

I've always seen Sam as the more internal one so the lack of telling his story has been lost on me (I hope that made sense, it did in my head). I completely agree about the whole "woe is me" Dean. It's really really old now (he started whining in S2).

I will gladly try to explain my Sam comment if need be. Just not now, I've got the dumb so I can't brain.

LOL Rose is perfectly okay, Purple. ;P I like that, considering my love for a certain "Rose" hee hee.

Thank you so much for that. I feel a bit better now after expressing myself because my intentions were never to come off as throwing a fit or screaming about how the show sucks, and I'm glad it didn't come out like that.

Sam, to me, became more internal when Season 4 began, and I honestly feel that it has just continued to go downhill from there. It's like the writers just forgot how to write Sam, or what might be going on inside of him. It's like they forgot how to write that Sam has emotions just like any other human being, and that Sam has his own internal struggles that need to be released, you know? Sam could use some real emotional cleansing because of everything he's been through, and yet they just keep making him this overly strong person, and I can't wrap my head around it. No normal human being would be able to go through what Sam's been through without having a total breakdown.

But yeah... I love Dean. I really do. I am just really tired of the writers turning him into this, for lack of better wording, self-pity character because that's exactly how he comes across to me personally. I don't expect people to agree with my own interpretations, but that's just how it honestly seems to me. I don't want anymore of this. I want my old show back with two brothers sticking by each other's sides through everything and being there for one another. I want Sam explored just as much as Dean, and it's just not happening, and it's just so discouraging and upsetting.

You can explain about Sam when the dumb is gone. I know how the dumb can be. Makes it hard to brain. Poor Purple.

[reedusisababe]

Jan 9, 2012 14:31:04 GMT -5 Rose said:

Jan 9, 2012 14:16:18 GMT -5 @reedusisababe said:

I think it will be okay now with Dean. The ending scene pretty much told me this dude is sucking it up and he will be back to his bad ass mother fucking self in no time. I just feel it was about time though for Dean to think about himself first but he will be back on the Sammy train soon it seems.

He clearly still gives a shit about Sam, his face when Krissy was like he has not came back proved it.

But that's just it. I don't want him to "suck it up" or stuff it inside because it just will eventually create more emo. I want him to learn and grow. I want him to move past it and focus on moving forward because when life's cards deal you a shitty hand, you can't sit and wallow in it forever. You have to move on. You have to keep pushing forward. You have to learn to accept the bad and not lose yourself in it. That's what I feel Dean is doing here. Or rather the writers are making Dean do, and it's not fun.

I don't like this at all. And yes, it's okay for Dean to focus on himself. I never said it wasn't, but to become so completely wrapped up in yourself that you're not even acknowledging the suffering going on from others around you just doesn't seem right to me. I've suffered from my own bouts of depression, but I've never let my own pain get in the way of focusing on my family. Particularly my sister, son and husband. I can deal with my pain while I'll help them get through their own. Why can't the writers present Dean this way for Sam?

I think people get like that sometimes though and it doesn't mean they don't care about the other person, they just well I don't know how to explain it, they just give up with everything.

Dean needed a refocused and I feel Frank gave it to him with that speech.

I also don't like seeing them split up either. Sam is in next weeks episode a lot more then the promo gave him credit for I found out, I can't post spoilers in this thread but I know he is in it a lot more then we saw in the promo and he's basically going to be the savior.

I'm sorry if my post offended you in any way as it was never my intention to offend someone, but just basically get my thoughts and feelings off my chest. I love this show so much that it's honestly heartbreaking for me to feel so discouraged and let down. And you can post spoilers here. I have no problem with that. Feel free to share what spoilers you know, because I don't really know anything beyond Sam meets up with an old friend, which I'm guessing is going to be Sheriff Jody Mills since Kim Rhodes stated she was in this episode on her Twitter.

You didn't offended me.

Sam is working the same case in the present that Dean and the other guy are working in the 1940s and also Sam is who has got to figure out how to bring them back to the present. Plus he meets up with Jody and I really want to see them working together like we are seeing Dean and the other guy working together *crosses fingers*. Sam needs a buddy and I think she would be perfect.


I understand what you mean and I really want to see Sam's hell myself. I honestly think Dean is over his emo stuff and it will be okay. Suck it up was a bad choice of words because you're right, the shit comes back, it's more Dean is refocusing on other matters that are more important. I don't think Dean knows how messed up Sam is because Sam is keeping it to himself as a way I guess to protect Dean because he knows how freaked Dean gets but now that Dean seems to be taking Frank's advice perhaps he will start to see there are cracks in Sam and Sam needs help.

[DeanandSam]

I understand what you mean and I really want to see Sam's hell myself. I honestly think Dean is over his emo stuff and it will be okay. Suck it up was a bad choice of words because you're right, the shit comes back, it's more Dean is refocusing on other matters that are more important. I don't think Dean knows how messed up Sam is because Sam is keeping it to himself as a way I guess to protect Dean because he knows how freaked Dean gets but now that Dean seems to be taking Frank's advice perhaps he will start to see there are cracks in Sam and Sam needs help.

This is what I am hoping to happen. The creators never stick with their original plan because fans shut those plans down quickly. An interview was said that Sam would be grown up, so to speak, in that he doesn't need Dean to watch his back all the time, and Dean has to respect that his brother is grow adult and can take care of himself. I know many fans didn't like how that was stated. The creators of the show are known to being fan service to fans, so I am sure they will bring back the dynamic we all grown to love between the boys. But I don't want them to go back to the old ways. They have grown up and been through a lot, so they can't be the old Sam and Dean we have grown to love.

[reedusisababe]

Depression is tricky. Some people can be like you Rose while some people can be like Dean and be like nothing matters anyway because everything sucks and be stuck in a funk.

My fiancé's mom is like that, she can have good days where she feels just fine, then have days where she calls him up and is all woe is me.

[Rose]

Jan 9, 2012 14:29:42 GMT -5 DeanandSam said:

I understand what you are saying Rocket. But for me, even though the writing has't been up to par, and they are always splitting up Dean and Sam for no reason. I still will continue to watch knowing that the episode is still going to revolve around Dean and Sam, and as long as they are both in the episode, I will tune in to watch. I will admit that I watch for Sam and Dean and knowbody else, so the second we find out (which I hope it never comes to that) that one boy won't be in the episode, than I am not tuning in. I watch for both boys, not one or the other.

I think we have given up a bit on this season because we were a bit mislead in thinking the boys will be together, but the writers misguided us, and this season the boys have been split up more than I could count. It's getting old.

I honestly feel we've been severely mislead this season. I feel we've been told one lie after another, and personally to me as a fan, it's really insulting. I've learned now not to be as naive and gullible in regards to what Sera says, because I truly believed her and I truly believed we were going to see something entirely different than what we're getting now. It just makes me so sad, because I feel like my favorite show has gone totally downhill, and just keeps continuing to fall. I understand that we may be in the last season or have one more season to go, but why start slacking on the writing now, you know?

[reedusisababe]

Jan 9, 2012 14:48:57 GMT -5 DeanandSam said:

I understand what you mean and I really want to see Sam's hell myself. I honestly think Dean is over his emo stuff and it will be okay. Suck it up was a bad choice of words because you're right, the shit comes back, it's more Dean is refocusing on other matters that are more important. I don't think Dean knows how messed up Sam is because Sam is keeping it to himself as a way I guess to protect Dean because he knows how freaked Dean gets but now that Dean seems to be taking Frank's advice perhaps he will start to see there are cracks in Sam and Sam needs help.

This is what I am hoping to happen. The creators never stick with their original plan because fans shut those plans down quickly. An interview was said that Sam would be grown up, so to speak, in that he doesn't need Dean to watch his back all the time, and Dean has to respect that his brother is grow adult and can take care of himself. I know many fans didn't like how that was stated. The creators of the show are known to being fan service to fans, so I am sure they will bring back the dynamic we all grown to love between the boys. But I don't want them to go back to the old ways. They have grown up and been through a lot, so they can't be the old Sam and Dean we have grown to love.

Sam is an adult and Dean is seeming to respect that however like I said now that Dean seems to be thinking with a less filled depression like mind, he's going to see Sam is not as okay as the kid has said and Dean will jump into well Dean helping Sammy mode.

Dean's mind and vision to other things was clouded when he was going through shit not that it appears to be clearing a bit, hopefully we will see what we are used to seeing.

They seem to fan service everything I am against.

[Rose]

Jan 9, 2012 14:32:15 GMT -5 chloekins said:

Jan 9, 2012 13:50:51 GMT -5 Rose said:

Okay, so I wasn't really sure how to go about beginning this thread, but I needed somewhere to express my feelings and frustrations in regards to the show at the moment. I'm sure I'm probably not the only one who feels the way that they do, and I honestly never thought I'd feel this way. I'm really disappointed with the show right now. I know I'm being a total hypocrite, and that I used to bitch at people making numerous threads complaining about the show saying how much that they hate it.

I'm not saying that it sucks. I'm not saying that I hate it. I'm just saying that I'm honestly disappointed, discouraged and upset about the direction it's going. Where is the promised focus that we were going to get on Sam's Hell or Sam's SL in general? What was the whole purpose in even killing off Bobby? Where is this alleged "Butch and Sundance" theme this season that Sera was so hellbent on, because I don't see it. When are they going to lay off of this Dean being constantly emo all of the time stuff?

Where are the brothers being closer than ever at, because I sure as hell don't see it. What is with the horribly weak writing this TV show is currently presenting? What happened to the element of family? All I see now is Sam and Dean constantly separating to go off on hunts by themselves and I'm tired of seeing the brothers separated. I know that Dean loves Sam and Sam loves Dean, but where is that bond we had back in S2/S3 at? I want it back. This doesn't have any elements of the earlier seasons to me like Sera promised and I have lost my complete faith in her and in this show. I have no more hope and no more expectations because I keep repeatedly being let down.

Take last week's episode for example. Now, you all know I'm a Sam girl, so it's going to frustrate me more than it would a Dean girl (maybe), but Sam is the one who wants to pursue Krissy and help her with her dad. Dean doesn't because he's too busy on trying to track down Dick Roman and they laid the emo on pretty thick in this episode with him too. I get that they're grieving and they have every right to, but what about Sam? I feel we got no insight into his character at all this past episode with the small exception of "I'm not okay. I want to work." *rolls over and goes to sleep*

I mean, really? And Sam is the one who went after Krissy's dad to try and save him. He even called the vetala on himself to protect Lee from getting another bite taken out of him. Yet, Krissy doesn't even acknowledge him or Sam gets no goodbye even though he killed one of the vetala and saved Dean, Lee and Krissy in the end? Why tell Dean she might go to Stanford like Sam. Sam is the one who deserved to hear that. Not Dean. And these are not potshots at Dean. It's just that I'm tired of seeing Sam sidelined. I'm tired of not seeing any emotional development for him as a character.

I'm tired of not seeing the brothers together anymore. What happened to Sam and Dean against the world when they're constantly separated. And now we have an episode coming up this Friday where Dean gets to go back in time, but not Sam? Sam is just sitting on the sidelines yet again? Even the promo for this Friday's episode showed all but one flash of Sam that if you blinked, you'd miss him. I signed up 7 seasons ago to watch a show about two brothers against the world. I didn't sign up to watch The Sam Winchester Show. I didn't sign up to watch The Dean Winchester Show.

I signed up to watch a show about these brothers and the heavy elements of family and the importance of family, and where is that? I'm not getting it... Why is it so difficult for the writers to focus on both brothers? Why is it so difficult for the writers to explore BOTH of their stories? Why can't we have those brotherly talks like we used to? Where Sam and Dean actually discussed things without making it too overly chick-flicky and they were there for each other? What happened to Dean being there for Sam? Sam has been there for him this entire season, but I have not seen Dean once ask Sam about Hell. Instead, he just refers to his brother as crazy? One flew over the cuckoo's nest?

That's not how Dean is. He should be concerned for his brother, and I personally feel that the writers have made him so wrapped up in himself and focusing on only how he feels, Sam's own issues and emotional trauma have been sidelined like always. Why can't we have both like we used to? I just don't get it... This show keeps further disappointing me as the weeks ago, and I am slowly losing my zest for it. This alone is upsetting to me because I love Jared and Jensen. I want to support them as much as I possibly can. I'm even questioning now if I want to attend ChiCon this October, because I'm so discouraged with the way things are going, and it sucks...

Anyway, sorry for my rambling. I just needed to get it off my chest. I'm not expecting anyone to agree with me or understand where I'm coming from, but if you feel discouraged with the show in your own ways, feel free to post your feelings here too.

Hooooo boy, you have read my mind. Every single word you said is what I have been thinking since the episode Friday.

I've been very disappointed all season with the show for exactly these same reasons. I also realized after the episode that I believe SG never intends to allow Sam to have a POV or to have either of them ever resolve their problems. For some reason she wants them wallowing in defeat and despair and forever be hopeless. If not why else did they have Frank tell Dean to suck it up, shove down the feelings and paste on a smile. Here's another person to join the ranks of John and Bobby who have told Dean he can't have emotions, he can't take time to have a little fun or to even talk to Sam about things. No, just shove those painful memories and miserable feelings down deep inside and push ahead and do the job.

I know the show is in the 7th season and is winding down but the writing has been horrible. They don't seem to have a direction they're sending the show. The Levi's were supposedly the worst thing to ever happen to the world and yet they seem very insignificant and mostly in the background.

I thought they sidelined Bobby (I refuse to say he's dead because I think he'll be back), so as to have Sam and Dean with only each other to rely on and trust. I thought it would bring them closer together and tighten their bond. But instead they still are as far apart as ever, even separating to work different jobs. Why are they doing that with the threat of the Levi's supposedly hot on their butts? They were supposed to be Butch and Sundance. That's a joke because they aren't even close to Butch and Sundance.

The show is mired in hopelessness and despair. People need to have hope for our heros to prevail and right now I just don't see any way that's going to happen not when Sam and Dean themselves can't find anything in themselves to have hope for. They used to feel that as long as they were together they were content. That's not true anymore either and it makes me sad.

THIS in particular!!! How on earth can fans continue to have hope for the show and for the characters if the characters themselves have nothing left? You've got Dean who's so lost in his own whirlwind of depression that he can barely focus, and you've got Sam who (I think... maybe) is still having hallucinations of Lucifer and struggling with his own Hell, but has nobody he can go to about what he's going through (because the writers are seemingly choosing it to be that way) and no PoV from him either beyond "I'm not okay."

We already know Sam's not okay, but why not show us how and why he's not okay, writers! Show us a Dean who can grow stronger and move forward and prevail. Give these boys something to live and hope for! The show has become some depressing and bleak that it's a struggle to watch because it's just so sad. It's not even really dark undertones anymore like it used to be. It's just flat out sad, desolate and miserable. And when you continuously watch something like this, it starts to leave you feeling the exact same way. The fact alone that I've lost hope is really difficult in general because they're not showing me anything to have hope for...

[reedusisababe]

The things is Sera can write Dean and Sam, she wrote Faith an amazing Dean centric story and the finales for season one which were two great Sam centric stories. The girl can write them it's just seems that yeah we were lied to because it's apparent fan service is happening, Cas is coming back.

I'm sorry I liked the dude, he has pissed me off but I'd rather see Sams shit then have him back.

[Rose]

Jan 9, 2012 15:02:12 GMT -5 @reedusisababe said:

The things is Sera can write Dean and Sam, she wrote Faith an amazing Dean centric story and the finales for season one which were two great Sam centric stories. The girl can write them it's just seems that yeah we were lied to because it's apparent fan service is happening, Cas is coming back.

I'm sorry I liked the dude, he has pissed me off but I'd rather see Sams shit then have him back.

I'm not, nor have I ever been, a diehard Cas fan. Truthfully, his exit didn't affect me in the way it has affected others, but when I heard Cas was coming, my heart literally dropped down to my feet because in my mind's eye, all I could see was the writers bringing Cas back, Dean and Cas eye-fucking each other, and my first thought was "What about Sam?" I fear for Sam so much with Cas coming back because I fear he will not get that true character exploration with his Hell and his story that we were promised and that he deserves. It's not that I hate Cas, it's just that Sam is the other main character in this story. Not Castiel, and I want Sam to get that focus. Not Castiel.

[reedusisababe]

Jan 9, 2012 15:06:18 GMT -5 Rose said:

Jan 9, 2012 15:02:12 GMT -5 @reedusisababe said:

The things is Sera can write Dean and Sam, she wrote Faith an amazing Dean centric story and the finales for season one which were two great Sam centric stories. The girl can write them it's just seems that yeah we were lied to because it's apparent fan service is happening, Cas is coming back.

I'm sorry I liked the dude, he has pissed me off but I'd rather see Sams shit then have him back.

I'm not, nor have I ever been, a diehard Cas fan. Truthfully, his exit didn't affect me in the way it has affected others, but when I heard Cas was coming, my heart literally dropped down to my feet because in my mind's eye, all I could see was the writers bringing Cas back, Dean and Cas eye-fucking each other, and my first thought was "What about Sam?" I fear for Sam so much with Cas coming back because I fear he will not get that true character exploration with his Hell and his story that we were promised and that he deserves. It's not that I hate Cas, it's just that Sam is the other main character in this story. Not Castiel, and I want Sam to get that focus. Not Castiel.

The thing that bugs me about Cas is the writers put the stupid ass slash comments. I mean I watch The Vampire Diaries and Damon and Alaric have a bromance without un-needed slash dialog so why the fuck they do it with Dean and Cas is beyond me. I get it Dean and Cas are friends but Damon and Alaric are friends like them without having slash dialog.

I'm not some anti gay person by any means it just bugs me making a friendship seem more then just a friendship if that makes sense.

Plus Cas fucked Sam and I am sorry as a person who likes him that is unforgivable and I want nothing more then for Dean to beat his ass. Sams shit is more important then Cas to me. Sam is a main character on this show after all.

[windykl]

Jan 9, 2012 15:14:44 GMT -5 @reedusisababe said:

Jan 9, 2012 15:06:18 GMT -5 Rose said:

I'm not, nor have I ever been, a diehard Cas fan. Truthfully, his exit didn't affect me in the way it has affected others, but when I heard Cas was coming, my heart literally dropped down to my feet because in my mind's eye, all I could see was the writers bringing Cas back, Dean and Cas eye-fucking each other, and my first thought was "What about Sam?" I fear for Sam so much with Cas coming back because I fear he will not get that true character exploration with his Hell and his story that we were promised and that he deserves. It's not that I hate Cas, it's just that Sam is the other main character in this story. Not Castiel, and I want Sam to get that focus. Not Castiel.

The thing that bugs me about Cas is the writers put the stupid ass slash comments. I mean I watch The Vampire Diaries and Damon and Alaric have a bromance without un-needed slash dialog so why the fuck they do it with Dean and Cas is beyond me. I get it Dean and Cas are friends but Damon and Alaric are friends like them without having slash dialog.

I'm not some anti gay person by any means it just bugs me making a friendship seem more then just a friendship if that makes sense.

Plus Cas fucked Sam and I am sorry as a person who likes him that is unforgivable and I want nothing more then for Dean to beat his ass. Sams shit is more important then Cas to me. Sam is a main character on this show after all.

i love the damon and alaric bromance!! and i totally agree with you..i hate the slash comments that the writers seem to think are all so funny and ok (not)...and just like rocket, i fear it will become all about dean/cas friendship (or profound bond) that will take over and leave sam in the background once again..i just don't understand how tptb can forget they have another main character/star..and i stopped believing in tptb a long time ago..they say one thing, then do another...

[DeanandSam]

Jan 9, 2012 15:29:04 GMT -5 windykl said:

Jan 9, 2012 15:14:44 GMT -5 @reedusisababe said:

The thing that bugs me about Cas is the writers put the stupid ass slash comments. I mean I watch The Vampire Diaries and Damon and Alaric have a bromance without un-needed slash dialog so why the fuck they do it with Dean and Cas is beyond me. I get it Dean and Cas are friends but Damon and Alaric are friends like them without having slash dialog.

I'm not some anti gay person by any means it just bugs me making a friendship seem more then just a friendship if that makes sense.

Plus Cas fucked Sam and I am sorry as a person who likes him that is unforgivable and I want nothing more then for Dean to beat his ass. Sams shit is more important then Cas to me. Sam is a main character on this show after all.

i love the damon and alaric bromance!! and i totally agree with you..i hate the slash comments that the writers seem to think are all so funny and ok (not)...and just like rocket, i fear it will become all about dean/cas friendship (or profound bond) that will take over and leave sam in the background once again..i just don't understand how tptb can forget they have another main character/star..and i stopped believing in tptb a long time ago..they say one thing, then do another...

I decided a while ago that I won't watch episode 17. They episode is already hyped up so I won't believe that he will only be on their for 5 minutes or whatever. The episode will probably feature him heavily, while Dean will only be used to stare dramatically in his eyes, while Sam is in the background digging his fingers in his palm. So, since I am assuming a great bit on what the episode will be like, I am choosing not to watch it.

[reedusisababe]

You watch TVD cool I have at least one person to talk about it with!!

I get Dean feels bad for what happen with Cas, Dean feeling bad is cannon after all but Cas still deserves an ass kicking or at least an angry Dean Winchester face/bitch out.


The fact that Cas fucked Sam over yet the kid was not at all mad and wanted to get to Cas shows just how great Sammy really is.

I hope Sam is not in the background when Cas shows up so I share your all's fear.

Like the eye fucking is not eye fucking with Dean and Cas, it's two good actors who are good at facial expressions, people just make it bigger then it is. Eye fucking is Damon and Elena on The Vampire Diaries lol.

[reedusisababe]

Jan 9, 2012 15:32:09 GMT -5 DeanandSam said:

Jan 9, 2012 15:29:04 GMT -5 windykl said:

i love the damon and alaric bromance!! and i totally agree with you..i hate the slash comments that the writers seem to think are all so funny and ok (not)...and just like rocket, i fear it will become all about dean/cas friendship (or profound bond) that will take over and leave sam in the background once again..i just don't understand how tptb can forget they have another main character/star..and i stopped believing in tptb a long time ago..they say one thing, then do another...

I decided a while ago that I won't watch episode 17. They episode is already hyped up so I won't believe that he will only be on their for 5 minutes or whatever. The episode will probably feature him heavily, while Dean will only be used to stare dramatically in his eyes, while Sam is in the background digging his fingers in his palm. So, since I am assuming a great bit on what the episode will be like, I am choosing not to watch it.

I might DVR it and then come online to see what people think then watch it or no depending on what I see.

[reedusisababe]

I have a worry about Dean but this seems more like a Sammy worries thread so I don't know if I should post it.

[DeanandSam]

Jan 9, 2012 15:47:54 GMT -5 @reedusisababe said:

I have a worry about Dean but this seems more like a Sammy worries thread so I don't know if I should post it.

No, go ahead and post it=)

[reedusisababe]

I hope it's okay.

I want nothing more then Dean to kill Dick, to be the BAMF he is and take that son of a bitch out however I am worried because of his obsession and I don't want him to turn in John with the obsessed with taking out the bad guy thing.

I want him to go about it smart and not like a suicide bomber who is ready and willing to get himself killed for the cause.

I don't want the writers to make him into John. He's a better person then John ever was and I feel it would be character assassination to make Dean into John with this obsession with taking out Dick.

[DeanandSam]

Jan 9, 2012 15:52:07 GMT -5 @reedusisababe said:

I hope it's okay.

I want nothing more then Dean to kill Dick, to be the BAMF he is and take that son of a bitch out however I am worried because of his obsession and I don't want him to turn in John with the obsessed with taking out the bad guy thing.

I want him to go about it smart and not like a suicide bomber who is ready and willing to get himself killed for the cause.

I do want Dean the one to kill Dick only because Dean the have built in rage, but also Dick is also the cause of many people he cares about loss. I want Sam to be besides him though. I think if they are in it together, than the job will be done right.

[reedusisababe]

Jan 9, 2012 15:54:12 GMT -5 DeanandSam said:

Jan 9, 2012 15:52:07 GMT -5 @reedusisababe said:

I hope it's okay.

I want nothing more then Dean to kill Dick, to be the BAMF he is and take that son of a bitch out however I am worried because of his obsession and I don't want him to turn in John with the obsessed with taking out the bad guy thing.

I want him to go about it smart and not like a suicide bomber who is ready and willing to get himself killed for the cause.

I do want Dean the one to kill Dick only because Dean the have built in rage, but also Dick is also the cause of many people he cares about loss. I want Sam to be besides him though. I think if they are in it together, than the job will be done right.

I agree I feel Sam can be the voice of reason and be like we will take him out together, I've got your back but we gotta do it smart.

Sam is always the voice of reason when Dean gets over the edge with things, if Dean gets too bad I bet Sam can get him of the edge.

Sam's rational as hell even in serious shit, the dude is as chill as a cucumber, where Dean is rational but he tends to let his anger and other feelings do his thinking for him.

[Rose]

Jan 9, 2012 15:47:54 GMT -5 @reedusisababe said:

I have a worry about Dean but this seems more like a Sammy worries thread so I don't know if I should post it.

You can post Dean worries. That's what this thread is for. For anybody who currently feels discouraged. I explained in my first post that I am a Sam Girl, so naturally my discouragement is going to lay more with how the writers are treating his character and how it's affecting me as a viewer. That doesn't mean that Dean fans or even Cas fans can't come in here and express how they might be feeling.

[reedusisababe]

Okay cool beans.

I'm not like a person that complains but I do have little worries over all though I like this season.

[reedusisababe]

Jan 9, 2012 16:43:01 GMT -5 @ohleesa said:

Jan 9, 2012 15:02:12 GMT -5 @reedusisababe said:

The things is Sera can write Dean and Sam, she wrote Faith an amazing Dean centric story and the finales for season one which were two great Sam centric stories. The girl can write them it's just seems that yeah we were lied to because it's apparent fan service is happening, Cas is coming back.

I'm sorry I liked the dude, he has pissed me off but I'd rather see Sams shit then have him back.

She can write but there are so many things that go into making a great tv show. Two important things that can elevate and or mask poor storytelling is the directing and the lighting. The lighting this season and last has been especially bad. Just watch Houses of the Holy. It's a good story but when you add the directing and lighting it elevates it to a great episode.

I'm just glad they have eased up on the makeup.

Jared and Jensen are flawless they don't need makeup caked on their faces.

[percysowner]

Jan 9, 2012 15:52:07 GMT -5 @reedusisababe said:

I hope it's okay.

I want nothing more then Dean to kill Dick, to be the BAMF he is and take that son of a bitch out however I am worried because of his obsession and I don't want him to turn in John with the obsessed with taking out the bad guy thing.

I want him to go about it smart and not like a suicide bomber who is ready and willing to get himself killed for the cause.

I don't want the writers to make him into John. He's a better person then John ever was and I feel it would be character assassination to make Dean into John with this obsession with taking out Dick.

Boy do I have mixed feelings on this one. On one hand I really, really want Dean to do just what you said, take out Dick with righteous anger in retaliation for what was done to Bobby. OTOH, I'm not up for one more round of when Sam did it, it was wrong; when Dean does it, it is right. Sam was hammered by Dean and the show for going after Lilith for revenge. Yet now that Dean wants revenge, I think it will portrayed as being a good thing. That bothers me. To me it's like season five where Dean couldn't forgive Sam for working with a demon and then he turns around and works with Crowley and everything in hunky dory. If Dean does go the revenge route I want him to succeed, but have to pay the same price that Sam and John did. I want him to learn that revenge is a bad motivator. I still want him to take Dick out, I just don't want the one and only time revenge is good to be when Dean does it.

[reedusisababe]

Jan 9, 2012 16:51:46 GMT -5 @ohleesa said:

Jan 9, 2012 16:49:12 GMT -5 @reedusisababe said:

I'm just glad they have eased up on the makeup.

Jared and Jensen are flawless they don't need makeup caked on their faces.

OMG I know! I can't stand that. They're so good looking, they don't need every flaw covered. Let their natural looks show through!

True dat!!

I happen to like the little winkles Jensen has, it makes him rugged.