Jim Michaels posts title of episode 7.17 - Spoiler

[KristinPhoenix]

Here is something for the #Jimions to help with the #Supernatural withdrawals today... #FF !!!! pic.twitter.com/H51Xvpzn

Supernatural

Episode #717

"The Born-Again Identity"

Written by Sera Gamble

Directed by Robert Singer

[DeanandSam]

I think Cas fans shouldn't be so quick to judge something just because it's written by a person they don't quite like. The thing is Sera has written many amazing episodes. I might agree that she doesn't know how to run a show, and should never run a show again, but she is an amazing writer. People should give her a chance before saying Cas is doomed because she is writing it. Writers are a hit and miss. Many people love Edlund because of his episode he had done in episode 20 in season 6, but Sera could have been the one to write that episode and people would have been praising her, but because Edlund was the one, many fans see him as the one who only understands the character Cas, when that is just not true. Just saying, don't be quick to judge.

[geordiegirl1967]

IMO Sera is a brilliant writer. Her abilities as a showrunner might be a little less clear, but I think she is a great writer and has written some of SPN's best. I see no evidence that she is anti Cas.

[SoCal]

Well we've already heard that Cas isn't going to be the same. I'm intrigued and hopeful that Sera won't jump the shark just to have Misha Collins return to the show.

[DeanandSam]

Jan 20, 2012 17:49:48 GMT -5 SoCal said:

Well we've already heard that Cas isn't going to be the same. I'm intrigued and hopeful that Sera won't jump the shark just to have Misha Collins return to the show.

I just wonder how much is Cas going to be in it? I know many fans (Well vocal Cas fans) are excited for it and the show runners tend to listen and hear the vocal persistent fans, than the regular fans, so they know that those vocal fans who love Cas are excited for the episode he will be in. That doesn't mean though that the whole episode will center around him, or that it's even going to be about him. We know that this is the episode Sam gets put in the asylum, so I am looking at it as though it's a Sam episode rather than a Cas episode like many fans are making it out to be. It's not Cas's episode just because it's the episode of his return. It just means that he will be returning in that episode. So I wonder how much screen time he will get?

[benson35]

Who says the title or the episode has anything to do with Castiel anyhow. Since the show is about the two leads of the show you'd think it just might be all about Dean and Sam Winchester.

Heres hoping its about Dean or Sams identity, about grabbing on to their identity and not loose themselves in what they have been going through. Both of them. I think Sera knows both our boys so I'm hoping that for all the focus on the boys this season that she doesn't loose that and loose the meaning of this show.

Its a huge pity that Collins/Castiel is coming back to shift any focus off the boys. He doesn't deserve it, the boys have moved on, the actors have moved on and the story of the Winchesters needs to be told.

So the Born-Again identity is hopefully all about Dean and Sam Winchester as it should be.

[DeanandSam]

Jan 20, 2012 17:54:40 GMT -5 benson35 said:

Who says the title or the episode has anything to do with Castiel anyhow. Since the show is about the two leads of the show you'd think it just might be all about Dean and Sam Winchester.

Heres hoping its about Dean or Sams identity, about grabbing on to their identity and not loose themselves in what they have been going through. Both of them. I think Sera knows both our boys so I'm hoping that for all the focus on the boys this season that she doesn't loose that and loose the meaning of this show.

Its a huge pity that Collins/Castiel is coming back to shift any focus off the boys. He doesn't deserve it, the boys have moved on, the actors have moved on and the story of the Winchesters needs to be told.

So the Born-Again identity is hopefully all about Dean and Sam Winchester as it should be.

You get a Karma for this post

[benson35]

lol I just read your post too, it wasn't there before and I had dejavu lol. Good going.

Heres to keeping the focus on the Winchester boys.

[DeanandSam]

Why is it depressing going in to a Cas thread (Not here, but elsewhere) and just be baffled on how others view things? I like the character Cas, which is why I go to those threads in the first place. But almost everywhere I go too, it them bitching at the fact that Gamble is writing episode 17, and is probably writing it because of her love for limp Sam and will mess up the Cas/Dean dynamic. These opinions doesn't hold value, because later on they write there hope for the episode, and it's about wanting Dean and Cas to get married or some other crap. You can't say that a professional writer is crap than offer your fantasy that will never happen. I can't take your opinion seriously if you do that. Are some fans watching the same show I am? Or am I in some dire need of a freakin clue? Because certain fans have me shaking my head at them.

[isitfridayyet]

Everyone in this fandom is constantly bitching about SOMETHING.

Look, I'm personally not a fan of Destiel, but it doesn't bother me. In my honest opinion, people get way too worked up about the harmless ships on this show. Clearly, people get different things out of it. What's the big deal? Destiel, Wincest..and that hilarious one that crosses Sam and Gabriel Why does it piss people off so much?

As a Casfan, I'm not SUPER thrilled to see that Gamble is writing Cas's return episode because how they handle him this go around is clearly important to us. Still, I don't think we're any more vocal than the people going on about how Cas will over shadow Sam and his storyline will be pushed aside YET AGAIN. People will always find something to whine about. C'est la vie!

aaand on topic: the title seems to point towards Cas..but if it's the episode where Sam goes mental then it could be about him...still...I don't think he's necessarily "born again." Kinda sounds like it's referring to Cas's "new identity."

[DeanandSam]

Jan 23, 2012 1:11:16 GMT -5 isitfridayyet said:

Everyone in this fandom is constantly bitching about SOMETHING.

Look, I'm personally not a fan of Destiel, but it doesn't bother me. In my honest opinion, people get way too worked up about the harmless ships on this show. Clearly, people get different things out of it. What's the big deal? Destiel, Wincest..and that hilarious one that crosses Sam and Gabriel Why does it piss people off so much?

As a Casfan, I'm not SUPER thrilled to see that Gamble is writing Cas's return episode because how they handle him this go around is clearly important to us. Still, I don't think we're any more vocal than the people going on about how Cas will over shadow Sam and his storyline will be pushed aside YET AGAIN. People will always find something to whine about. C'est la vie!

aaand on topic: the title seems to point towards Cas..but if it's the episode where Sam goes mental then it could be about him...still...I don't think he's necessarily "born again." Kinda sounds like it's referring to Cas's "new identity."

The big deal is because some of those fans who ship Desteil ship it to the extreme, that they hate that a certain writer is writing the episode of Cas's return because she isn't going to give Cas and Dean a hot makeout session. I understand people ship whatever. I don't see wincest, Desteil or what ever on my screen. It's not until I come online and see people tear down scenes from the show because they see their ship in those said scenes as being romantic, etc. Than that ruins it for me. But that is besides the point. The point is, shipping characters is supposed to be understood that these characters aren't really together, so when you do see them on your screen, you shouldn't be upset that they aren't being written that way. Like I said, I don't ship wincest, but I don't come across people who ship being upset that their ship isn't being canon. Because it's understood it will never happen on the show. Some people who ship Destiel take to the extreme by being upset that Gamble is writing the episode, being upset that Dean keeps being written as a Hetro, newsflash, he is a Heterosexual, etc, etc. It's hard to not come across those things either. I think no matter what you may ship online, it should be understood, that that ship is not canon on the show and if you think it is, it's going to ruin the way you watch a show.

[isitfridayyet]

I just think people get too worked up about it. It really has no bearing on what the writers do and if it annoys you, don't read it. There are approximately 3 cas fans that post on this forum. The others are sick of the hate and for being bashed and taunted without mercy. None of the few here are hardcore Destiel shippers.

[DeanandSam]

Jan 23, 2012 8:31:42 GMT -5 isitfridayyet said:

I just think people get too worked up about it. It really has no bearing on what the writers do and if it annoys you, don't read it. There are approximately 3 cas fans that post on this forum. The others are sick of the hate and for being bashed and taunted without mercy. None of the few here are hardcore Destiel shippers.

Than it shouldn't bother them. I'm not even talking about the fans here. I am talking about other boards that are hardcore Destiel shippers. I am speaking my opinion on the matter, why should I quite down about it? And if you honestly think that it has no bearing on the writers, you are sadly mistaken. May I remind you of season 6 and all it's gay subtext glory?

[isitfridayyet]

Who's fault is that really? So you're saying some Destiel shippers annoy you because they go too far with their ship, but then you also say there is gay subtext in the writing that feeds their thinking? Seems to me that you're venting about and placing blame on the wrong people.

And who asked you to quiet down? Asking anyone in this fandom to not whine and complain about something would be a waste of time.

[DeanandSam]

Jan 23, 2012 8:45:13 GMT -5 isitfridayyet said:

Who's fault is that really? So you're saying some Destiel shippers annoy you because they go too far with their ship, but then you also say there is gay subtext in the writing that feeds their thinking? Seems to me that you're venting about and placing blame on the wrong people.

And who asked you to quiet down? Asking anyone in this fandom to not whine and complain about something would be a waste of time.

The blame is still on the vocal Destiel shippers that go online and try to push their ship in making it canon. The writers see that stuff and incorporate it in to the story. It took the direction of the Cas and Dean bond to a level that was nauseating. I liked their dynamic in the beginning but fans ruined it by being very vocal so the writers changed the way they wrote Dean and Cas. Still the fault of those fans, but also the fault of the writers who like to fan service the fans, but they forget that, that also turns off other viewers in to tuning in. I am assuming you are one of those hardcore Destiel shippers, which is why you are getting very pissed at what I am writing. Drink up

[isitfridayyet]

Jan 23, 2012 13:21:13 GMT -5 DeanandSam said:

Jan 23, 2012 8:45:13 GMT -5 isitfridayyet said:

Who's fault is that really? So you're saying some Destiel shippers annoy you because they go too far with their ship, but then you also say there is gay subtext in the writing that feeds their thinking? Seems to me that you're venting about and placing blame on the wrong people.

And who asked you to quiet down? Asking anyone in this fandom to not whine and complain about something would be a waste of time.

The blame is still on the vocal Destiel shippers that go online and try to push their ship in making it canon. The writers see that stuff and incorporate it in to the story. It took the direction of the Cas and Dean bond to a level that was nauseating. I liked their dynamic in the beginning but fans ruined it by being very vocal so the writers changed the way they wrote Dean and Cas. Still the fault of those fans, but also the fault of the writers who like to fan service the fans, but they forget that, that also turns off other viewers in to tuning in. I am assuming you are one of those hardcore Destiel shippers, which is why you are getting very pissed at what I am writing. Drink up

Damnit you caught me! I'm secretly mad because I know that if Gamble writes this episode, Dean and Cas won't explore the "profound" bond in the shower. I'd rather Edlund write it because Deans gayness is so canon and he gets it! I spend all night writing Destiel fanfic. I'm so hardcore about it that I can't sleep! I have Destiel pjs and Aeryn just bought me fuzzy handcuffs that say "dean and cas furrrrever" on them. I want Sam dead. He's terrible! Oh how much I hate Sam Winchester! I've been going on for months now about my dislike for Destiel and love of Sammy but I just can't pull the wool over your eyes!

don't assume anything Hun. It makes you sound like a jackass.

[benson35]

Jan 23, 2012 13:21:13 GMT -5 DeanandSam said:

Jan 23, 2012 8:45:13 GMT -5 isitfridayyet said:

Who's fault is that really? So you're saying some Destiel shippers annoy you because they go too far with their ship, but then you also say there is gay subtext in the writing that feeds their thinking? Seems to me that you're venting about and placing blame on the wrong people.

And who asked you to quiet down? Asking anyone in this fandom to not whine and complain about something would be a waste of time.

The blame is still on the vocal Destiel shippers that go online and try to push their ship in making it canon. The writers see that stuff and incorporate it in to the story. It took the direction of the Cas and Dean bond to a level that was nauseating. I liked their dynamic in the beginning but fans ruined it by being very vocal so the writers changed the way they wrote Dean and Cas. Still the fault of those fans, but also the fault of the writers who like to fan service the fans, but they forget that, that also turns off other viewers in to tuning in. I am assuming you are one of those hardcore Destiel shippers, which is why you are getting very pissed at what I am writing. Drink up

OMG I think you've got it in one! Well said all of it. Behind there 'We want Castiel back' is this ship that never was and never will be there. Dean couldn't stand Castiel, didn't even care if he talked to him for a year or ever. But hey lets make him his 'brother'? WTF.

Totally out of the blue, totally irrational especially when this whole show is about Sam and Dean being brothers. Its not like they were giving Dean something he doesn't already have that we've actually seen.

But the cries of him coming back and having Sera write the episode. NEWSFLASH the whole show is not about Castiel heck the episode won't be about him either. Its about two brothers as its always been.

And if they were to be consistent to these characters they'd have Dean and Sam finally be able to get one up on Castiel and this time make him pay for all he did. Now THAT is the story in a nutshell..

And for some to cry because they don't get to see a person that did such horrible things to Sam and Dean become a 'friend' again, so be it. That shouldn't matter, he never was their friend last year, EVER!

[DeanandSam]

[quote Damnit you caught me! I'm secretly mad because I know that if Gamble writes this episode, Dean and Cas won't explore the "profound" bond in the shower. I'd rather Edlund write it because Deans gayness is so canon and he gets it! I spend all night writing Destiel fanfic. I'm so hardcore about it that I can't sleep! I have Destiel pjs and Aeryn just bought me fuzzy handcuffs that say "dean and cas furrrrever" on them. I want Sam dead. He's terrible! Oh how much I hate Sam Winchester! I've been going on for months now about my dislike for Destiel and love of Sammy but I just can't pull the wool over your eyes!

don't assume anything Hun. It makes you sound like a jackass. [/quote]

Well, there is no harm in being a Destiel shipper. That is not what I am getting at. So you rock on with your handcuffs and pjs, I am not stopping you. My whole point is that Destiel is not canon and fans trying to push their ship as being so, is very very annoying. Some fans even tweet Jim Micheals about their love of their ship in which he responds back. At one point a fan tweeted Jim in asking about Sam's Wall, and that don't care for the Angel. Him re tweeted that tweet and said it's best to call out the hater. Since when is not liking a certain character makes you a hater? Which shows me that most vocal fans are Cas fans. So the people in SPN involved think that everybody loves Cas, when in fact not every fan is part of fandom, and not every fan cares for the character. I was disappointed when Jim did that.

Which brings me to OPERATION TRENCHCOAT. Now if this was something that was something for fans to do for fun, I wouldn't care. But in reality it's a campaign to have Cas be part of the main cast in season 8. I don't care if Cas comes back only if he would come back in to the show the way Bobby was. But I wouldn't want him to be part of the cast in ALL episodes. You know why? Because even though Cas was an important character in the show, he was only important because he caused things to happen in the Sam and Dean relationship. Characters come and go in the show, but the ones that stay are Sam and Dean. That is what the show is about and should always be about. How is Cas going to fit in to season 8? I certainty don't want to tune in to watch a human Cas trying to get the hang of being human. I don't want to tune in to season 8 watching Cas and Dean staring at each other. Having Cas as a main character would change the way the story gets told, and if that happens because of a lame campaign as "Operation Trench coat" than I am one viewer that will no longer be watching. Fans can love a character as much as they want, but when it comes to Supernatural, it has always been Sam and Dean. Other shows probably would have added Cas as a main cast member. Which would have worked. The show supernatural can't just shift there story line in focusing on a character that hasn't won the hearts of many viewers as a whole. So in the longer run, it will destroy the show, rather than freshen it up. Of course, yeah, yeah, this is My opeineon. But I learned that if Cas fans can be very vocal about their opinion, than I certainly am entitled to mine

[isitfridayyet]

Hey don't look at me. Operation trench coat was Benson's idea.

[isitfridayyet]

Jan 23, 2012 15:10:23 GMT -5 @ohleesa said:

Hmmm. I'm confused about the comment that there are only 3 Cas fans that post here. There are plenty more than that. Just because people don't post in the CFC doesn't mean they're not Cas fans.

Approximately was what I said. And they don't post more because every thread is so damn Cas and cas fan negative. Joining this forum is starting to feel like a mistake.

[DeanandSam]

Jan 23, 2012 15:16:48 GMT -5 isitfridayyet said:

Jan 23, 2012 15:10:23 GMT -5 @ohleesa said:

Hmmm. I'm confused about the comment that there are only 3 Cas fans that post here. There are plenty more than that. Just because people don't post in the CFC doesn't mean they're not Cas fans.

Approximately was what I said. And they don't post more because every thread is so damn Cas and cas fan negative. Joining this forum is starting to feel like a mistake.

Why a mistake? Because you see other fans not flailing over a character you love? Trust me honey, I have seen so much negative things said about Sam or Dean, in which I ignore. In the long run they are fictional characters I don't know why we get so riled up either hating them or defending them. But that is what it means being part of Fandom. Suck it up, and stick with the people who love the character you love just as much as you do. But it's also good to surround yourself with people who have other ideas, and other opinion. It won't hurt you.

[isitfridayyet]

Jan 23, 2012 15:20:40 GMT -5 DeanandSam said:

Jan 23, 2012 15:16:48 GMT -5 isitfridayyet said:

Approximately was what I said. And they don't post more because every thread is so damn Cas and cas fan negative. Joining this forum is starting to feel like a mistake.

Why a mistake? Because you see other fans not flailing over a character you love? Trust me honey, I have seen so much negative things said about Sam or Dean, in which I ignore. In the long run they are fictional characters I don't know why we get so riled up either hating them or defending them. But that is what it means being part of Fandom. Suck it up, and stick with the people who love the character you love just as much as you do. But it's also good to surround yourself with people who have other ideas, and other opinion. It won't hurt you.

Pot call the kettle black much?

Where do I demand that everyone flail over Cas? It's exhausting when every thread that mentions Castiel is taken in such a negative direction to bash either him or cas fans in general. Some posters are so obsessed with mud slinging that they don't even realize that they recycle the same sentences over and over. There's a thread for that already.

I think I'm better suited in a more positive forum.

[DeanandSam]

Jan 23, 2012 15:31:36 GMT -5 isitfridayyet said:

Jan 23, 2012 15:20:40 GMT -5 DeanandSam said:

Why a mistake? Because you see other fans not flailing over a character you love? Trust me honey, I have seen so much negative things said about Sam or Dean, in which I ignore. In the long run they are fictional characters I don't know why we get so riled up either hating them or defending them. But that is what it means being part of Fandom. Suck it up, and stick with the people who love the character you love just as much as you do. But it's also good to surround yourself with people who have other ideas, and other opinion. It won't hurt you.

Pot call the kettle black much?

Where do I demand that everyone flail over Cas? It's exhausting when every thread that mentions Castiel is taken in such a negative direction to bash either him or cas fans in general. Some posters are so obsessed with mud slinging that they don't even realize that they recycle the same sentences over and over. There's a thread for that already.

I think I'm better suited in a more positive forum.

Well, I stand by every post I wrote. And even though I am negative towards the character Cas, doesn't mean I have to take that negativity in to the Cas hate thread. I am free to share my view's outside that particular thread if I choose too. But I will shut up about this now. Though I still stand by everything I wrote.

[benson35]

Jan 23, 2012 15:14:15 GMT -5 isitfridayyet said:

Hey don't look at me. Operation trench coat was Benson's idea.

Well that trenchcoat lost 4 viewers that had been watching since season one. They couldn't understand how Dean F'n Winchester could be so pathetic over a piece of clothing especially when its a dead mans vessels trenchcoat worn by a traitor that nearly killed them.

But its not like they thought he was Gay for Castiel because they didn't see anything but irritation from Dean towards Castiel...but more that it was a real 'gay' thing to do so unlike Dean.

Weird how things effect people, but right there in that moment they knew as most would that that wouldn't be something Dean would do. No guy would keep another guys (traitors) coat. It just wouldn't happen.

I'd of burnt it, although I never thought it was even that important in the first place. Its not like its even remotely like Dads jacket, the amulet or the car or even the little soldier toy in the impala lol, or even Bobby's hats. Which makes that scene even worse.

[isitfridayyet]

ANYWAY...I think the title is a Bourne Identity reference. It seems to suggest that Cas has amnesia.

[benson35]

Jan 23, 2012 16:07:07 GMT -5 isitfridayyet said:

ANYWAY...I think the title is a Bourne Identity reference. It seems to suggest that Cas has amnesia.

Or that Sam does. And since he's one of the stars of the show I'd go with Sam. Even Dean, since you know, he's the other star of the show.

[isitfridayyet]

Jan 23, 2012 16:05:32 GMT -5 puppydreams said:

Other people see ships imaginative and harmless. Dean and Castiel are unrelated adults. Nothing is actually shown or described, so people that have a problem with it need to get a grip.

[DeanandSam]

Jan 23, 2012 16:07:07 GMT -5 isitfridayyet said:

ANYWAY...I think the title is a Bourne Identity reference. It seems to suggest that Cas has amnesia.

Let's forget it all about our spat and go back to spoilers. I think the title could be in reference to both Sam and Cas. Cas with amnesia and Sam with his identity as a San person taken away because he has gone nuts now.

[isitfridayyet]

Jan 23, 2012 16:08:56 GMT -5 benson35 said:

Jan 23, 2012 16:07:07 GMT -5 isitfridayyet said:

ANYWAY...I think the title is a Bourne Identity reference. It seems to suggest that Cas has amnesia.

Or that Sam does. And since he's one of the stars of the show I'd go with Sam. Even Dean, since you know, he's the other star of the show.

[isitfridayyet]

Jan 23, 2012 16:13:20 GMT -5 @ohleesa said:

Jan 23, 2012 16:07:07 GMT -5 isitfridayyet said:

ANYWAY...I think the title is a Bourne Identity reference. It seems to suggest that Cas has amnesia.

Sera Gamble loves to write about issues of faith. I've never seen a BI movie (*embarrassed*) but I"m guessing it will be a mesh of that and have religous undertones.

Some people were speculating about Cas having amnesia and becoming some religious faith healer because of his powers.

The BI movies are great! Matt Damon....meeeeow.