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Post by gilmorefanalways on Aug 7, 2012 18:08:22 GMT -5
I finished the great gatsby on sat and am still as heart broken as the first time
What are your initial thoughts after finishing the book?
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Post by gilmorefanalways on Aug 7, 2012 18:42:45 GMT -5
My initial thoughts were pity and admiration for gatsby. Pity bcuz he lost daisy twice and neither in life or death could daisy love him enough and he sought to please her and have her most of his life. Sadly the thing he sought(daisy) was not worth any of his efforts but i think perhaps a small part of gatsby knew that for he hints to the knowledge of that fact when he says her voice is full of money thus confessing daisys charms and allure are born from her wealth. And perhaps without her wealth she wouldnt have captivated his heart so fully. Which brings me to my admiration of gatsby he knew she was fallible and easily influenced amd i think he knew she was selfish too when she ran over myrtle amd yet by admitting to nick that hed say he was driving shows that he loved daisy sp much that hed give of himself to cover over her faults anf blemishes. Which he ultimately does when he dies at the hands of wilson , when easily he could have chosen some other path that may not have ended in his death. Amd instead of skipping town the way nick suggests he
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Post by gilmorefanalways on Aug 7, 2012 18:58:53 GMT -5
Stays to see what daisy will do knowing he was putting himself in danger perhaps he knew all along keeping his dream of her and their future life alive was dangerous and would on the end cost him something. But for gatsby that was fine hed pay any price for a chance to habe her for any amount of time . Gatsby was a hard headed dreamer and he devoted his life to deserving her love and to chasing his dream. This is why i admired him he sought his drea m at any price in a world where dreamers were unheard of poor gatsby paid the price of being different in a world full of same follow routine creatures. He paid the price for loving daisy and her wealth far too much
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Mistermoonlight
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Post by Mistermoonlight on Aug 8, 2012 19:18:26 GMT -5
Ok, just finished it. I'll probably have better insight into it tomorrow, after I've had a chance to let the themes resonate a bit with me, but let's talk about it now, too.
I'll go up to some of your previous posts that I didn't look at yet, because I didn't want to get spoiled before I'd finished it.
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Post by Mistermoonlight on Aug 8, 2012 19:28:20 GMT -5
My initial thoughts were pity and admiration for gatsby. Pity bcuz he lost daisy twice and neither in life or death could daisy love him enough and he sought to please her and have her most of his life. Sadly the thing he sought(daisy) was not worth any of his efforts but i think perhaps a small part of gatsby knew that for he hints to the knowledge of that fact when he says her voice is full of money thus confessing daisys charms and allure are born from her wealth. And perhaps without her wealth she wouldnt have captivated his heart so fully. Which brings me to my admiration of gatsby he knew she was fallible and easily influenced amd i think he knew she was selfish too when she ran over myrtle amd yet by admitting to nick that hed say he was driving shows that he loved daisy sp much that hed give of himself to cover over her faults anf blemishes. Which he ultimately does when he dies at the hands of wilson , when easily he could have chosen some other path that may not have ended in his death. Amd instead of skipping town the way nick suggests he You know, something just occured to me. Do you think Daisy ran over Myrtle on purpose? That somehow she knew she was Tom's lover? If that's true, she would have killed two people purposely, because it's obvious at the dinner that Nick spies them at the night before they leave that she and Tom have sealed a pact that results in Gatsby's death. Perhaps she didn't, and is only complicit in Gatsby's demise. I think one of the thing Fitzgerald is showing is that the rich can get away with things like this. There is something about Gatsby that is a little unsavory. I think one of the things Fitzgerald keeps revealing is that he's not who people think he is--from the way he changed his name as a boy to his claim to have been an "Oxford Man" to the many references to illicit business practices he's engaged in. |
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Post by gilmorefanalways on Aug 8, 2012 19:30:11 GMT -5
Ok sorry for posting before u finishedI thought u remembered the story I'm really sorry I hate when people spoil books for me
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Post by Mistermoonlight on Aug 8, 2012 19:38:22 GMT -5
Stays to see what daisy will do knowing he was putting himself in danger perhaps he knew all along keeping his dream of her and their future life alive was dangerous and would on the end cost him something. But for gatsby that was fine hed pay any price for a chance to habe her for any amount of time . Gatsby was a hard headed dreamer and he devoted his life to deserving her love and to chasing his dream. This is why i admired him he sought his drea m at any price in a world where dreamers were unheard of poor gatsby paid the price of being different in a world full of same follow routine creatures. He paid the price for loving daisy and her wealth far too much Yes, I think that's true, too. He was a dreamer, as well as many other things, and I think that's the reason we like him better than Tom. The book is filled with deception in almost every page, from Tom's assurances that he'll give George the car, to all of the many other untruths we see. And also filled with people who either don't or can't see the world as it really is. Amidst that kind of company a dreamer stands out almost like an angel would. |
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Post by gilmorefanalways on Aug 8, 2012 19:41:37 GMT -5
Omg I never ever thought they plotted together to get Gatsby killed but you know that may have been what happened. I never even guessed that! I just thought the dinner was to show that. irregardless of who tom and daisy hurt they'd always return to eachother and find s
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Post by gilmorefanalways on Aug 8, 2012 19:46:04 GMT -5
Solace in eachother bcuz they are the same type of people, selfish arrogant people
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Post by Mistermoonlight on Aug 8, 2012 19:46:40 GMT -5
Omg I never ever thought they plotted together to get Gatsby killed but you know that may have been what happened. I never even guessed that! I just thought the dinner was to show that. irregardless of who tom and daisy hurt they'd always return to eachother and find s I think at that dinner Tom told Daisy how they would get out of this mess and she took him up on it. At least that's the significance I see of that scene. And I wonder if Daisy herself is not a metaphor for wealth itself, how it is desired, dreamed about, and how some are willing to give up even love for it. Did you know that Baz Luhrman, who directed Moulin Rouge is making Gatsby as his next film? Leonardo DiCaprio will be in it, but it won't be out till 2013. |
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Post by gilmorefanalways on Aug 8, 2012 19:55:13 GMT -5
I always thought she ran over her on purpose I'm not sure how she knew exactly what myrtle looked like but from the impression Jordan gave tom was not discreet and it was widely known that he was cheating so I'm sure daisy had ways of finding out who myrtle was
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Post by gilmorefanalways on Aug 8, 2012 19:58:33 GMT -5
But if its like u say and they plotted it then that explains whydaisy didn't care about his death and why they skipped town bcuz nick suggested Gatsby leave when he appeared guilty of killing myrtle which I think foreshadows tom and daisy's absence right when gatsbys killed
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Post by Mistermoonlight on Aug 8, 2012 20:00:04 GMT -5
In the end, Nick is the only person of real substance and conscience that we see in the book. He is never swayed by Gatsby's wealth, doesn't take him up on his offer to help him in the bond business (thank goodness, because we know from one of the phone calls Nick receives at Gatsby's house, after his death, that Gatsby was involved in some kind of illegal scheme that sounded like it dealt with stolen bonds), sees that Jordan is a part of that world, and although he still loves her, walks away from it and goes back west. In the final chapters we see that Nick is the only true friend that Gatsby had.
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Post by gilmorefanalways on Aug 8, 2012 20:04:21 GMT -5
Moon you are def offering me a lot of insight I didn't see, I feel smarter just talking bout this book togetherlol
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Post by Mistermoonlight on Aug 8, 2012 20:11:08 GMT -5
But if its like u say and they plotted it then that explains whydaisy didn't care about his death and why they skipped town bcuz nick suggested Gatsby leave when he appeared guilty of killing myrtle which I think foreshadows tom and daisy's absence right when gatsbys killed Yes, and I think that's why we never hear Daisy say anything after the accident--the beautful melodious voice of hers is silenced to us. Nick does meet Tom once more at the end, and we find out how it all happened, but we never hear Daisy's voice again. This book is so beautufully written. Fitzgerald's sentences just shine, much like that green light on Daisy's pier, or the shafts of moonlight shining through the tiny space between two lover's faces we see underneath the tree in Gatsby's yard. Wonderful writing. |
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Post by gilmorefanalways on Aug 8, 2012 20:14:00 GMT -5
That makes a lot of sense about them devising a plan to blame it all on Gatsby daisy probley even admitted to driving with him and lied and said he was driving. She probley concocted some story of Gatsby running myrtle down which would also explain why tom was convinced Gatsby ran myrtle down like a dog
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Post by Mistermoonlight on Aug 8, 2012 20:15:53 GMT -5
Moon you are def offering me a lot of insight I didn't see, I feel smarter just talking bout this book togetherlol I've enjoyed it too. And I'm really looking forward to talking more about it tomorrow, after I've kind of digested things, thought about them a bit more, and can really approach it properly. This is why I loved my literature classes so much. Between your classmates and the professor you always learn so much more than you would come up with just on your own. Which is the beauty of our SynchroLounge--you get the same thing. |
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Post by gilmorefanalways on Aug 8, 2012 20:17:21 GMT -5
I agree it really is written wonderfully I haven't found any other books written so well
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Post by gilmorefanalways on Aug 8, 2012 20:25:13 GMT -5
I am very excited for all that I will gain from others perspectives and insights
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Mistermoonlight
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Post by Mistermoonlight on Aug 8, 2012 20:29:53 GMT -5
That makes a lot of sense about them devising a plan to blame it all on Gatsby daisy probley even admitted to driving with him and lied and said he was driving. She probley concocted some story of Gatsby running myrtle down which would also explain why tom was convinced Gatsby ran myrtle down like a dog That is entirely possible too. Good insight, there. We don't know exactly what happened in that conversation because we get no dialogue. And that's a wonderful thing. Fitzgerald instinctively uses what Hemingway called the 'Iceberg theory' in writing. If you think about it, you only see the very top part of an iceberg. Nine tenths of it is underwater. The idea is that you tell only the parts of the story that are absolutely essential, but as a writer you know what is submerged there, and you leave it open for interpretation. Essentially it engages the reader in writing parts of the story for themselves, and can give a story real resonance. You think about it for days afterward. ' All we see in that scene is Nick watching Tom and Daisy through a window sitting at a dinner of chicken and ale, which neither of them eats. They aren't happy, but they aren't unhappy either. Then Tom rests his hand on Daisy's hand. And that's it. In that one scene he's told us loads of things without explaining a single one. I think that's my favorite scene in the book, in terms of construction. It's a marvel to see it done so well. This is a perfect example of the term 'less is more.' |
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Post by gilmorefanalways on Aug 8, 2012 22:19:08 GMT -5
That is a very intriguing writing method it leaves open any conclusions the reader sees fit to draw thereby allowing the reader to choose the plot or symbolism they most identify with thus making the story far more personal As i said a very good writing technique indeed
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Post by gilmorefanalways on Aug 8, 2012 22:20:27 GMT -5
If you were gatsby what would you have done concerning daisy
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Post by avp60685 on Aug 9, 2012 13:39:32 GMT -5
I love the discussing going on between you and Moon dear Jennifer!
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Post by gilmorefanalways on Aug 9, 2012 18:32:00 GMT -5
Thanx avp it really does help to discuss the book together and its really fun
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Post by Mistermoonlight on Aug 9, 2012 18:53:28 GMT -5
If you were gatsby what would you have done concerning daisy What a wonderful question. I've been thinking about it today and I pretty well know what I want to say, but we've got some super-bad weather headed in right now, and I don't want to be typing and lose my power or internet connection, so I'm gonna hold off till it's over. May even have to unplug my computer. BTW, I reserved my copy of The Help just now and will pick it up at my library tomorrow. |
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Post by Mistermoonlight on Aug 9, 2012 21:32:18 GMT -5
If you were gatsby what would you have done concerning daisy I have a little bit of a letup in the storm right now until the next round of big nasty stuff heads my way, so I'll get started. I have a feeling that this will be a long answer, so I'll pick up with it again tomorrow, probably. But, before I do, what would you think about me separating the discussion of Gatsby from this thread and moving all of our discussion to one made just for that book? I'm thinking we probably should make a separate thread for each book we discuss, just to keep things straight. Anyway, back to the question, and it's a hard one to answer, because I haven't had the life experiences of Gatsby, so a great deal of it will be tempered by what I might do, instead of him. First of all, I would probably be smitten even more than him because of her voice. I've always been attracted to voices, and hers is one that I doubt anyone who'd heard it would ever forget. Like Gatsby, I'm a dreamer and a romantic as well, and I can totally understand his trying to recapture a romance that's never left his mind for five years. For the pivotal scene at the end, I can only say that for me, I doubt I would have been as noble as Gatsby. I would have been too frightened after the accident to 'stand guard' over Daisy outside her home that night. I might have even taken Nick's advice and left, I don't know. Then again, love does strange things to us, so perhaps I wouldn't have. Gatsby's got to have nerves of iron to have been in the businesses he was in. We got clues that he was involved in illegal alcohol sales during prohibition, stolen bonds, and there was a mention in the book about his associate Wolfsheim 'fixing' the (1919) world series. Wolfsheim is supposed to be based on organized crime figure Arnold Rothsten, from that era. So, if he can deal with that kind of pressure, he could certainly deal with the issue of the car wreck, and do it a lot better than me. But it's Daisy that seems to sink him. He's so in love with her that he can't see straight. And I think she was not in love with him as much as he was with her. At the party before the wreck, she backed off after telling Tom that she'd never loved him, and said that wasn't true, and that was her first betrayal of Gatsby. I think she would have been perfectly happy to keep things as they were, married to Tom, with Gatsby as her lover. But Gatsby wanted more--he wanted to win her and he wanted to win the contest for her as well. We always desire that which is elusive to us, it's human nature. Both he and I are alike in regards to that. There are a lot of events in Fitzgerald's life that made this a very real story for him in terms of how Gatsby acts towards Daisy, and I'll talk about some of those tomorrow. |
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Post by gilmorefanalways on Aug 9, 2012 23:06:47 GMT -5
Maybe we can even rent the movie the great gatsby and watch it at same time
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Post by Mistermoonlight on Aug 9, 2012 23:43:14 GMT -5
Sure thing. That's what we've got the SynchroLounge for!
That would be fun.
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Post by gilmorefanalways on Aug 10, 2012 16:53:10 GMT -5
Moon wen do u wanna watch gatsby i have the movie so just let me know wen u have yours
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Post by Mistermoonlight on Aug 10, 2012 17:19:11 GMT -5
There have been several different versions of the movie made over the years. Which one do you have?
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