A Prayer for Owen Meany by John Irving- DISCUSSION

[gilmorefanalways]

I am just about to chapter two

[gilmorefanalways]

I'm dreading Owen going to the academy i have a bad feeling about such a place

[Watchtower]

I haven't even started chapter 2 yet...

[Mistermoonlight]

If you're both still on chapter one, then we should hold the discussion to chapter one, then.

By the way, have you checked your PMs lately, Jen?

[gilmorefanalways]

Chloe dont feel bad and moon i haven't in a few days but i did get your response to my pm i just haven't had a lot of time I've been working extra shifts forgive me for not responding yet i had planned to and i will

[gilmorefanalways]

Something interesting that hit me as i was reading when owen wanted to stop to help the man reshingling the church, it struck me because how many of us on our daily ways to wherever have come across a similar scene and it registers in our brain that yes someone whoever it may be that we are observing could use some extra help but how many of us have ever stopped to lend that helping hand most everyone nowadays are too caught up in their routine or busy life to take the time to stop and help i am sure many of us have been on our way somewhere and seen the same thing but carried along on our way we register with our eyes and brain but not with our hearts and that alone is one reason why Owen is different unique, he still sees and feels with his heart

[Mistermoonlight]

Ok, great. Glad to hear you got it.

The episode with the man who needs help on the roof happens at the same time that Tabby is telling Owen that she will take care of his going to the academy. Owen is obstinate. He doesn't see any way it can work. But in the midst of his self-denial towards this gift, his sight is aimed outwards, at another that he can see needs help right here and now.

While the ability to see the needs of others won't change, his inward view and knowledge of himself will. But he'll still be Owen, so he'll always be a bit of a pill.

What do you think about the fact that the older version of John Wheelwright tells us that Owen Meany is the reason he believes, yet we find out at the very end of the chapter that it was the baseball that Owen hit in a baseball game that killed John's mother?

[Mistermoonlight]

Dec 15, 2012 18:39:11 GMT -5 gilmorefanalways said:

I'm dreading Owen going to the academy i have a bad feeling about such a place

Yeah, having to wear those coats and ties.

[Watchtower]

Dec 15, 2012 19:20:49 GMT -5 Mistermoonlight said:

Ok, great. Glad to hear you got it.

The episode with the man who needs help on the roof happens at the same time that Tabby is telling Owen that she will take care of his going to the academy. Owen is obstinate. He doesn't see any way it can work. But in the midst of his self-denial towards this gift, his sight is aimed outwards, at another that he can see needs help right here and now.

While the ability to see the needs of others won't change, his inward view and knowledge of himself will. But he'll still be Owen, so he'll always be a bit of a pill.

What do you think about the fact that the older version of John Wheelwright tells us that Owen Meany is the reason he believes, yet we find out at the very end of the chapter that it was the baseball that Owen hit in a baseball game that killed John's mother?

Honestly, my first thought is that everything happens for a reason. I know that God puts certain people in our lives for different reasons. This was the first time Owen was able to hit a ball and although he accidently killed John's mother, it was a foreshadowing of events to come.

It reminds me of something I always say: Anything good that happens in a blessing. Anything bad that happens is a blessing in disguise, even if we don't see it right away.

[Mistermoonlight]

Given all that we've seen happen since Irving wrote the book in 1989, including 9/11, what would your first reaction be to someone who told you they were an instrument of God?

Would you be frightened?

[Watchtower]

I don't know if I would be frightened. But I would be very cautious. The things that happen, like 9/11 and shootings, God has no control over. Why do they happen? Because those that do these things do not see the light, and the light is God. But on the other hand, God can use anyone. For instance, let's say a drug addict goes to jail for dealing drugs, he's just about as far away as God as he can be. While in prison, he could see the light, he could find Jesus and accept him into his heart. He could get out of prison and change his life around, maybe counseling others who are addicted.

That's just one example. But I can't say I know anyone that would even say they're an instrument of God.

[AntiArbitrator]

What do you think about the fact that the older version of John Wheelwright tells us that Owen Meany is the reason he believes, yet we find out at the very end of the chapter that it was the baseball that Owen hit in a baseball game that killed John's mother?

My first thought was that John was a very forgiving person. Then I realized forgiveness was not an issue because John never felt anger angainst Owen for Tabby's death. I think the older John witnessed something Owen was capable of that made Owen seem more than an ordinary human. I don't know what it could be, but it had to be profound to effect John's belief.

[AntiArbitrator]

Dec 15, 2012 20:44:05 GMT -5 Mistermoonlight said:

Given all that we've seen happen since Irving wrote the book in 1989, including 9/11, what would your first reaction be to someone who told you they were an instrument of God?

Would you be frightened?

Unfortunately, I have seen too many movies where the instrument of God was sent here to decrease the population because we were messing up. So, I would not drink the cool aid.

John's and Owen's close relationship gave John no reason to fear him. They spent so much time together that John must have witnessed some miraculous events that convinced him.

I cannot think of anyone I have personally met whom I would believe if he told me he was an instrument of God. In fact, I would keep a watchful eye on the individual.

[gilmorefanalways]

If someone said that to me i too would be cautious but also curious.cautious because as anti said most people who say this tend to do things that make you believe otherwise. However i would also be curious because to hear someone speak so assuredly about what they are would intrigue me and touch my heart. Can someone be so close to God that they have no doubt as to what they are? I believe they can, however no one has ever said this to me. But then again are we not over looking one person who truly was an instrument for God,Jesus?

[Watchtower]

Dec 15, 2012 23:27:52 GMT -5 gilmorefanalways said:

If someone said that to me i too would be cautious but also curious.cautious because as anti said most people who say this tend to do things that make you believe otherwise. However i would also be curious because to hear someone speak so assuredly about what they are would intrigue me and touch my heart. Can someone be so close to God that they have no doubt as to what they are? I believe they can, however no one has ever said this to me. But then again are we not over looking one person who truly was an instrument for God,Jesus?

I believe you can be sure enough to know your place with God, but we are all human and we are all sinners. I'm still only a 'newborn in faith' as my aunt once described me as. But I think the only person who was really, truly an instrument of God is Jesus.

[AntiArbitrator]

If I had lived while Jesus walked the earth, I would have been skeptical unless I witnessed the miracles. Witnesses spread the word about the miracles but still only few believed. Jesus became popular after his death rather than when he was teaching people.

I would have had to see the miracle for myself and I am curious to see if that was the case with John.

[gilmorefanalways]

I too would have wanted to see His miracles and hear His words if id have heard about a man being called the Messiah and performing miracles i would have been drawn simply by hearing that, it would have piqued my interest, but in todays world i would be wary

[Mistermoonlight]

I have seen way too many people wrap themselves in what they proclaim to be 'the word of the Lord' and do hateful, shameful things. Things from some other universe than love. The list would be endless.

But how much more powerful, as you've said here, to see the life of one singular individual, and the effect that it can have on just one person, or on many?

I too, would probably be a doubting Thomas, but in this novel, John doesn't have to doubt, because like his namesake in the Bible, he sees.

Since we are dealing very much with the Christian religion in this book, I am drawn to this line in the Bible:

"Jesus replied, "To be sure, Elijah comes and will restore all things. But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands." Then the disciples understood that he was talking to them about John the Baptist". — Matthew 17:11-13

It brings to mind the issue of suffering, which we see on both Owen's and John's part, even in this early part of the book. Sometimes suffering makes the most of us: we are placed in a situation where the only choices are hope or despair.

[gilmorefanalways]

I have never heard memory more accurately described than in chapter one the last few pages of this chapter it says
"your memory is a monster you forget it doesn't. It simply files things away.it keeps things for you or hides things from you and summons them to your recall with a will of its own.you think you have a memory but it has you"

[gilmorefanalways]

That is exactly what a memory is and does pulls out thebad when you least expect it and still finds a way to surprise you with the good you have forgotten

[AntiArbitrator]

Dec 18, 2012 0:53:22 GMT -5 gilmorefanalways said:

That is exactly what a memory is and does pulls out thebad when you least expect it and still finds a way to surprise you with the good you have forgotten

Very well expressed. Thanks for reminding me of the times my memory has surprised me.

[gilmorefanalways]

Thank you anti

[AntiArbitrator]

Dec 18, 2012 19:05:09 GMT -5 gilmorefanalways said:

Thank you anti

You're welcome. When is our next meeting?

[gilmorefanalways]

They will be Saturday at six.

[avp60685]

Is it okay if I post before Saturday?

[gilmorefanalways]

Of course there are no rules everyone can post anything whenever

[avp60685]

Okay great thank you!

[Mistermoonlight]

We'll be talking about chapter two Saturday night, and if you don't join us we're going to grab you, lift you up above us, and pass you around to everyone, until your change and baseball cards fall out to the floor.


That's 6 pm eastern time, right, Jen?

[avp60685]

LOL you're funny Moon, I need to get back to reading this book!

[gilmorefanalways]

yes moon