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Post by AntiArbitrator on Feb 24, 2013 20:26:44 GMT -5
Even though a lot of people have claimed to be doing God's will, Owen was exceptional in that he never intentionally hurt anyone. Other people have done unspeakably ugly things and claimed God told them to do it.
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Post by AntiArbitrator on Feb 24, 2013 20:28:49 GMT -5
Oh yes, I thought that was funny too. It would get his students' attention. It was even funnier when he would irritate that rude or bossy professor with the stump. I loved that he was planing to pretend to pick his nose to freak her out lol Yes, he could be quite mischievous when he wanted to be. I was surprised at John's obsessive behavior regarding news from America since it was sort of getting him in trouble. |
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Post by gilmorefanalways on Feb 24, 2013 20:31:53 GMT -5
That is true
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Post by AntiArbitrator on Feb 24, 2013 20:33:54 GMT -5
Something I never understood was the real reason behind John remaining a virgin. Apparently, he wanted girls when he was a teenager, but nothing happened. Then his friend referred to him as a “nonpracticing homosexual”. I do not understand the relevance of that to the story.
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Post by gilmorefanalways on Feb 24, 2013 20:35:19 GMT -5
I loved that he was planing to pretend to pick his nose to freak her out lol Yes, he could be quite mischievous when he wanted to be. I was surprised at John's obsessive behavior regarding news from America since it was sort of getting him in trouble. I think it was as Dan said John was angry he blamed America for Owens death I think that's why John reacted so angrily to the news |
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Post by AntiArbitrator on Feb 24, 2013 20:38:14 GMT -5
Yeah, that makes sense. Thanks. Guess he still misses his friend.  |
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Post by gilmorefanalways on Feb 24, 2013 20:39:59 GMT -5
Something I never understood was the real reason behind John remaining a virgin. Apparently, he wanted girls when he was a teenager, but nothing happened. Then his friend referred to him as a “nonpracticing homosexual”. I do not understand the relevance of that to the story. I thought later in the novel it was mentioned that because of the damage he'd undergone at what happened to Owen that he never felt like attempting it much the same as Hester vowed shed never have babies or get married |
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Post by gilmorefanalways on Feb 24, 2013 20:42:34 GMT -5
I could be wrong
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Post by AntiArbitrator on Feb 24, 2013 20:43:08 GMT -5
Oh. That is an astonishing and profound impact to have on another person's life. It is just as well that John never got married because no one would ever measure up to Owen. Edit: I think you are right. |
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Post by gilmorefanalways on Feb 24, 2013 20:50:53 GMT -5
Indeed that is such an impact to haveon someones life but for me just reading about Owen has changed and impacted me
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Post by AntiArbitrator on Feb 24, 2013 20:50:59 GMT -5
My last post is A Prayer For MisterMoonlight
If you wanted us to wait for you, please don't hate me.
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Post by gilmorefanalways on Feb 24, 2013 20:59:19 GMT -5
I have something to write about the baseball card John found but its long so don't think ive left lol
And I'm sure moon wouldn't be angry
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Post by AntiArbitrator on Feb 24, 2013 21:01:50 GMT -5
Okay, I hope. The Walking Dead just came on. I will check with you later.
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Post by gilmorefanalways on Feb 24, 2013 21:05:38 GMT -5
Anti I will have to return I have to go offline for a while but ill be back later and I will post my thoughts then
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Post by AntiArbitrator on Feb 24, 2013 21:08:17 GMT -5
Okay.
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Mistermoonlight
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Post by Mistermoonlight on Feb 24, 2013 22:17:25 GMT -5
My last post is A Prayer For MisterMoonlightIf you wanted us to wait for you, please don't hate me. I love it. ![]() No, you both did exactly what I'd hoped you would. I'm glad you had the discussion as planned. Strangely, I do have some experience with stories involving missing limbs, the first of which is also by John Irving, which makes one suspect he's got a bit of a thing going about that. The Fourth Hand is a novel of his published in 2001. Here's a description of it: "While reporting a story from India, Patrick Wallingford, a New York television journalist, has his left hand eaten by a lion. Millions of TV viewers witness the accident, and Patrick achieves instant notoriety as "the lion guy". In Boston, a renowned hand surgeon, Dr. Nicholas M. Zajac, awaits the opportunity to perform the nation’s first hand transplant. After watching video of Patrick, Dr. Zajac contacts the journalist and pledges to find a suitable hand donor for him. Doris Clausen, a married woman in Wisconsin, wants to give Patrick Wallingford her husband’s left hand—that is, after her husband dies. When her husband later dies from a self-inflicted gunshot wound, Doris immediately rushes the hand to Boston. In the waiting room prior to the procedure, Doris has sex with Patrick, explaining that she had always wanted to have a child but was unable to with her late husband. The hand is then successfully attached by Dr. Zajac, with unorthodox visitation rights for the hand granted to Doris. Patrick quickly falls in love with Doris, who has his baby, Otto Clausen Junior. Doris, however, will not return Patrick's love, and only allows him to touch her intimately with her late husband's hand, now Patrick's." Like all of Irving's novels it's eminently readable, but to me doesn't soar on quite the same level that A Prayer for Owen Meany or The World According to Garp does. (By the way, if you ever get the chance, check out Garp. It's wonderful, and the movie based on it is superb--it was Robin Williams first film role.) The other book that deals with missing limbs is one I'm currently reading, Wicked: The Life and Times of the Wicked Witch of the West, by Gregory Maguire. The Wicked Witch so far is a quite likable character. I'm about three fourths of the way through it. Here's another bit of description about the characters: " Elphaba Thropp: The protagonist of the book, Elphaba is a green-skinned girl who later becomes known as the Wicked Witch of the West. She acquires this nickname more because of her sister's nickname (the Wicked Witch of the East, who was so named by her political opponents) than for any wicked deeds. Nessarose Thropp: Elphaba's younger sister, Nessarose eventually becomes known as the Wicked Witch of the East (in Baum's original book, unlike in The Wizard of Oz, the Wicked Witch of the East and the Wicked Witch of the West are not sisters). Nessarose was born without arms. This was possibly a side effect of a remedy Melena took in order to save her next child from having green skin. Nessarose is extremely beautiful, causing Elphaba to resent her both out of jealousy and because of her father's favoring Nessarose over Elphaba. As a gift, Frex sends Nessarose the sparkling glass covered shoes (which are known as the Silver Shoes in The Wonderful Wizard of Oz) that Glinda later enchants, giving Nessarose the ability to walk unaided." So, the ruby slippers were actually aid Nessarose, who was born without arms. One can imagine that standing or sitting could be a good bit more difficult without upper limbs. And Nessarose promised Elphaba that, should she ever die, the slippers were hers. Those were the first two I thought of. There may be more that will come to mind later. |
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Mistermoonlight
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Post by Mistermoonlight on Feb 24, 2013 22:38:51 GMT -5
I have something to write about the baseball card John found but its long so don't think ive left lol And I'm sure moon wouldn't be angry I can't wait to hear this. |
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Post by Mistermoonlight on Feb 24, 2013 22:44:00 GMT -5
Indeed that is such an impact to haveon someones life but for me just reading about Owen has changed and impacted me Isn't it amazing and wonderful when a piece of writing can have that effect? As I understand it, the novel all came about when Irving, an agnostic, asked himself 'what would it take for me to believe?' The answer was Owen Meany. |
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Mistermoonlight
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Post by Mistermoonlight on Feb 24, 2013 22:48:46 GMT -5
He was so absolutely special the last chapter broke my heart I was so sad to see him go It's probably just the geek in me, but I sometimes like to think that in another universe Owen is the son of Obi Wan Kenobi. |
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Mistermoonlight
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Post by Mistermoonlight on Feb 24, 2013 22:54:48 GMT -5
John showed some of his fathers doubt concerning Owens birth did you believe that part about Owen being a virgin birth That gave me a brain freeze. After the description that was given of Owen's parents, I refuse to even think about what went on (or did not go on) in their bedroom. ![]() ![]() I love the way this was presented not so much as a verified fact, yet was revealed to John by one of the very people who would know--Owen's father. And that makes Mr. Meany, like John, a "Joseph." One has to take the story of Owen as a virgin birth as he would have liked it--on faith. |
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Post by Mistermoonlight on Feb 24, 2013 23:02:41 GMT -5
As far as being angry that his father was Rev. Merrill, I do not know how I expected John to react. I remember Owen warning him he would be disappointed when he learned of his parentage. I think John's anger was normal because his father was there all that time and made no effort to have a relationship. The confession of wishing John's mother would drop dead did not set up parameters for a close relationship either. I know I give long-winded responses. ![]() A four-sentence response isn't long-winded, so don't worry about that. I think you were very succinct. And I agree with your analysis. |
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Post by Mistermoonlight on Feb 24, 2013 23:11:11 GMT -5
Owen was a very special person. Reading about him made me wonder if there was a special person in my life, would I have recognized him. You know I wondered the same thing many times during this story I think that after reading this novel the first time I became much more aware of the possibility of greatness in others and began to look for it--to seek it out. It's amazing the affect you can have on people when you reflect back to them their higher nature. You give them wings. |
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Mistermoonlight
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Post by Mistermoonlight on Feb 26, 2013 21:35:34 GMT -5
So, are you going to tell us about the baseball card, Jen?
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Post by gilmorefanalways on Feb 27, 2013 0:31:55 GMT -5
I am def moon I've just been away the past couple days i will post my theory tomorrow
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Mistermoonlight
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Post by Mistermoonlight on Mar 3, 2013 21:58:08 GMT -5
I've found another song about Owen Meany by a group called Lagwagon. I love that their song contains the actual prayer: Give him back. And "immacualate perception" is such a great play on words.
Lyrics:
Uncertainty
A foundation built on nothing I could see
Secure in your immaculate perception
The last resort I ever thought I'd exercise
Now, all that I have to stand on
Grieving from a different point of view
I learned it's meaning from you
In life and death
And continue
...But faith is just a
Silent tribute
Mine is just a desperate act
Give him back
I owe him
Throw me a line, I'll suspend
My disbelief
And concede
Following your lead
Faithfully
I'm Led into this concession with hope and doubt
A seemingly futile gesture
Faith is just a silent tribute
Mine is just a desperate act
Holding on
It's just this desperation that
Takes me home
Finally, it was thinking of Owen Meany tonight that revealed to me the hitherto unrecognized (on my part) humor of Leonard Cohen's verse in "Hallelujah" that goes "Your faith was strong, but you needed proof."
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Post by gilmorefanalways on Mar 5, 2013 2:40:51 GMT -5
Moon many of your insights astound me
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