A Prayer for Owen Meany by John Irving- DISCUSSION

[gilmorefanalways]

That's a long list I would never have guessed

[AntiArbitrator]

Jan 6, 2013 19:56:01 GMT -5 Mistermoonlight said:

Sorry that I wasn't as clear as I wanted to be. I was just saying that since the Jewish faith has probably produced more famous comedians than any other, they must know a secret.

Jewish comedians include: Jon Stewart, Groucho Marx, Billy Crystal, Adam Sandler, Sarah Silverman, Jerry Seinfeld, Larry David, Woody Allen, Mel Brooks, Lenny Bruce, George Burns, Andy Samberg, Peter Sellers, Ben Stiller, Chelsea Handler, Jack Benny, Jack Black, Jerry Lewis, Seth Rogen, . . . and on and on, into infinity.

Thanks for explaining and for being so kindly tactful in so doing.

I enjoy those comedians. Adam Sandler is a favorite with 3 generations of my family.

[gilmorefanalways]

My sister is in love with him lol

[AntiArbitrator]

Jen, that is so funny because I would never think of Sandler as a heartthrob, but he is loveable.

[avp60685]

I know there also Messianic Jews who believe in Jesus but they still follow strict dietary laws and holy days!

I really ought to explain about my own upbringing because it was similar to the Jewish faith but it was somewhat different too!

I'll do that soon I promise and I really need to get back to my reading of this novel!

[Mistermoonlight]

I wanted to remind all of our book club members about tonight's discussion of A Prayer for Owen Meany, chapter 5 tonight at 6pm EST.

[gilmorefanalways]

Thanx moon
I'll be seeing you guys at six can't wait to hear everyones input

[AntiArbitrator]

Okay. See you then.

[Mistermoonlight]

Hi folks. I just got in from work, so I'm liable to be 20-30 minutes late starting in with discussion. I've read the entire chapter, though. I'll be along shortly, so don't wait for me.

[gilmorefanalways]

Ok thanks for letting us know moon

[gilmorefanalways]

So much is happening in this chapter, we see Johnny and owen mature and change so much its hard to believe they are the same characters we've been following

[AntiArbitrator]

The Ghost of the Future

I expected the Christmas play to be a disaster and was not surprised when the children messed up. Everything else that happened was surprising.

The Little Lord Jesus' reaction to the Meanys being in the audience was shocking. I had not grasped the depth of anger toward the parents. If I do not learn the backstory on that, I will be disappointed. It was amusing that the sinners in the audience thought they were being singled out. It was also amusing that the audience copied the hand gesture of the hand slice across the throat.

Seeing his name on the tombstone probably shocked me as much as it did Owen. Owen had been described as very ill for a length of time so I thought he would be dead by the end of the chapter. Two reasons popped into my mind for Owen denying there was a date on the tombstone. One reason is that he did not want to acknowledge the date at all by saying it aloud. The other reason is that John had refused to believe what Owen was telling him. The event was very personal and devastating and Owen’s best friend hurt him by not supporting him.

[gilmorefanalways]

I must say the complete opposite of what i predicted has happened for Owen meany at the academy i believed he would only encounter trouble and be the laughing stock

[gilmorefanalways]

Oops sorry i an ahead of myself within the chapters

[Mistermoonlight]

In the last chapter Owen was 'The Little Lord Jesus' in the church pageant. In this one he's 'The Ghost of Christmas Yet to Come' in Dan's production of "A Christmas Carol" by Dickens. I don't know whether it makes any difference or not, but I notice that Irving named the chapter ' The Ghost of the Future,' which seems to hint to me that we're talking about more than just the role in the Christmas pageant. (If memory of the movie serves me right, that indeed is the scariest ghost in the story, as pointed out in the novel.)

Then we find out that Owen himself has had a vision (much like the prophets in The Bible) and that he has seen his own name on a gravestone, and that, although he denies it, he now knows the date of his death.

That's a lot of knowledge for a little guy like Owen. And pretty scary.

If we were to go by the tropes of modern drama, having a cough is usually a harbinger of death.

[gilmorefanalways]

I am having some very irritating issues with my internet but will post as much as i can,i just knew the play was going to be bad what with such an awkward beginning

[Mistermoonlight]

Jan 12, 2013 18:22:56 GMT -5 AntiArbitrator said:

The Ghost of the Future

I expected the Christmas play to be a disaster and was not surprised when the children messed up. Everything else that happened was surprising.

The Little Lord Jesus' reaction to the Meanys being in the audience was shocking. I had not grasped the depth of anger toward the parents. If I do not learn the backstory on that, I will be disappointed. It was amusing that the sinners in the audience thought they were being singled out. It was also amusing that the audience copied the hand gesture of the hand slice across the throat.

Seeing his name on the tombstone probably shocked me as much as it did Owen. Owen had been described as very ill for a length of time so I thought he would be dead by the end of the chapter. Two reasons popped into my mind for Owen denying there was a date on the tombstone. One reason is that he did not want to acknowledge the date at all by saying it aloud. The other reason is that John had refused to believe what Owen was telling him. The event was very personal and devastating and Owen’s best friend hurt him by not supporting him.

I wonder if John is not beginning to see Owen's orchestration of things as being a little controlling, and is not jealous of Owen's having two parents alive--and is a little upset that Owen treats them so shabbily.

[gilmorefanalways]

I agree very much with you moon about Irving meaning more with that title
I so feel for Owen he struggles with so much and seems to encounter one issue after another

[Mistermoonlight]

Jan 12, 2013 18:41:58 GMT -5 gilmorefanalways said:

I am having some very irritating issues with my internet but will post as much as i can,i just knew the play was going to be bad what with such an awkward beginning

It's not just you. I got 'Internal Server Errors' the first two times I tried to post the thread above. Looks more like a ProBoards problem.

[gilmorefanalways]

Anti I'm very intrigued as well concerning the issues with Owens parents i hope we learn the full extent of it soon

[Mistermoonlight]

This chapter has one of the funniest lines in the whole book for me. When Mr. Fish (who is "NOT A CHURCHGOER") wonders how much of Jesus Christ's 'story' is covered in the pageant, Owen tells him it's not 'the whole thing,' that "THEY DIDN'T NAIL HIM TO THE CROSS WHEN HE WAS A BABY!"

I had to stop and laugh at that for quite a while.

[gilmorefanalways]

Well moon its good to know it's not just me having issues lol every time i try to post itsays there is an error and deletes everything I've written

[Mistermoonlight]

I also love that Owen is so scary as 'The Ghost of Christmas Yet to Come' that Maureen Early pees in her pants.

And of course, we see in this chapter an unfortunate event--the death of Lydia, the former maid.

[gilmorefanalways]

This chapter is very unsettling. I'm very curious as to what owen saw on the grave stone. And what about John carrying owen out I'm sure that's metaphorical for something

[gilmorefanalways]

And the way it ended with John feeling upset over the phone call to owen just so much to do some deep thinking on

[gilmorefanalways]

And that character barb i never liked her especially with the way she would lift owen up

[Mistermoonlight]

Not only that, she gave 'the Little Lord Jesus' an erection in his swaddling clothes.

And kissed him on the mouth.

[AntiArbitrator]

Yeah, we know where Barb is going to wind up. She enjoyed doing that to Owen. I guess stewardesses were not thought well of when the book was written.

[AntiArbitrator]

Jan 12, 2013 19:04:10 GMT -5 Mistermoonlight said:

I also love that Owen is so scary as 'The Ghost of Christmas Yet to Come' that Maureen Early pees in her pants.

And of course, we see in this chapter an unfortunate event--the death of Lydia, the former maid.

They speak frequently of Owen's "presence". It seems he can project his presence to control the response of the audience, whether with awe or with fear. John began to notice that more and more.

When Lydia died, the other maid swears she could hear Owen's scream. Even though she is extremely superstitious, she must have heard something and she knows Owen's unusual voice.

I was proud of Mrs. Wheelwright for not letting the maid go just because she was no longer needed.

[gilmorefanalways]

She def is an awful person maybe she needs a hilly pie too lol