A Prayer for Owen Meany by John Irving- DISCUSSION

[Mistermoonlight]

Interesting quote about Owen Meany's voice from John Irving that I found online today:

"From scenic designer William Bloodgood: Can you describe Owen's voice as you hear it?

Irving: There's gravel damage, rock dust, granite quarry residue, in Owen's throat; he probably has what they call "singers' polyps." It is a damaged-sounding voice; it has to strain. It's always a little harsh-sounding — never soft. It's irritating to listen to — like the effect of those capital letters, I thought. It's an insistent voice — one that demands to be heard. Of course, the reason for it — I'm speaking religiously here, but also in terms of the all-important plot — is that Owen has to have a voice children will pay attention to, which is why he also has to be small."

[AntiArbitrator]

That is indeed a very interesting quote, especially the line about a voice children will listen to. I have been wondering why Owen was so small and Irving is letting us know there is an important reason for his size as well as his voice.

MisterMoonlight, thanks for sharing that. I am sitting here reading over The Voice so that I can understand tonight's discussion.

[Mistermoonlight]

I am so looking forward to tonight's discussion.

Especially the Liberace parts.

For those of you who don't know who he was:



Liberace was Elton John before Elton John was Elton John. I can remember, like John Wheelwright, watching him on tv with my grandmother, who loved him.



We see Liberace introduce his brother George in the above video.



A look at Liberace's history in the 1950s, right next to Little Richard. If only there had been a duet between the two.

[gilmorefanalways]

See you guys at six

[Mistermoonlight]

It's 6 now, eastern time, right?

It seems to me that one of the miracles we see is Owen's transformation as 'the other' into Mrs. wheelwright's friend in their shared love of Liberace on television.

[AntiArbitrator]

Wow! MisterMoonlight. I am going to post and then watch the videoclips.

Edit: Watched the first one. I am laughing before I hear the first question or answer on the "What's My Line", but Liberace was able to disguise his voice. ;D

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I think it is appropriate and clever that Owen was nicknamed The Voice by his peers. Any strangers who met Owen would probably come to a number of different conclusions as to how he came by that nickname. In my opinion, Owen is The Voice because he is clever and established himself as spokesperson for the student body. It is unusual to be given multiple nicknames when one has an outstanding title like The Voice, but Owen represented many achievements in the view of his peers. I like “Sarcasm Master” because I’m sure Owen was capable of outwitting his opponent with words. In spite of his size, Owen stood out and people noticed and talked about whatever he did, giving him nicknames like “two-packs-a-day” Meany, “black-coffee” Meany, “a mean little ***”, “Lady’s Man” Meany, “Older-Woman” Master, “Slam-Dunk” Master. Those are a lot of nicknames for a little guy.

John was given none.

[gilmorefanalways]

Yes moon

[Mistermoonlight]

Jan 19, 2013 18:03:39 GMT -5 AntiArbitrator said:

Wow! MisterMoonlight. I am going to post and then watch the videoclips.

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I think it is appropriate and clever that Owen was nicknamed The Voice by his peers. Any strangers who met Owen would probably come to a number of different conclusions as to how he came by that nickname. In my opinion, Owen is The Voice because he is clever and established himself as spokesperson for the student body. It is unusual to be given multiple nicknames when one has an outstanding title like The Voice, but Owen represented many achievements in the view of his peers. I like “Sarcasm Master” because I’m sure Owen was capable of outwitting his opponent with words. In spite of his size, Owen stood out and people noticed and talked about whatever he did, giving him nicknames like “two-packs-a-day” Meany, “black-coffee” Meany, “a mean little ***”, “Lady’s Man” Meany, “Older-Woman” Master, “Slam-Dunk” Master. Those are a lot of nicknames for a little guy.

John was given none.

Good point. As Joseph was the father during a 'virgin birth' John is given almost none of the nicknames.

I thought it was interesting that in the page before it was said that the procedure Owen worked on was called 'stuffing the ball' that Irving referrred to as a 'slam dunk' later a terminology, which according to him, did not exist at the time.

[gilmorefanalways]

I am very surprised by the turn of events at the academy and the reputation Owen has earned for himself. He is literally all the things i didn't think he would become. Id expected him to have a rough time at the academy and to flounder while John flourished i had expected Owen to be bullied mercilessly.i had expected johns friendship with him to suffer but how wrong was i ! Owen breaking fingers! And what's more owen discussing the breasts of classmates. And i so admire owen for taking that year to stay with john in the public school what a friend. It seems owen really came into his own ( i hate sounding cliche lol) but that's truly the only term i can find for it.

[Mistermoonlight]

Yes, we see in this chapter that Owen is no longer the victim in relationships with others but fully capable of taking on his own.

[gilmorefanalways]

And about owen discovering his sexuality i was surprised i guess mostly because i had come to respect Owen kind of as above normal people like he was a step above, but to hear of him discovering his sexuality it reminded me that he too is human

[gilmorefanalways]

I agree their common love for Liberace did bring them together and made them friends rather than just that boy with the voice. I was surprised and excited that she decided to pay Owens way

[Mistermoonlight]

Jan 19, 2013 18:29:56 GMT -5 gilmorefanalways said:

And about owen discovering his sexuality i was surprised i guess mostly because i had come to respect Owen kind of as above normal people like he was a step above, but to hear of him discovering his sexuality it reminded me that he too is human

ink

While it's not said, I think the fact that Owen discovers his sexuality here is important.

[AntiArbitrator]

Jan 19, 2013 18:02:36 GMT -5 Mistermoonlight said:

It's 6 now, eastern time, right?
It seems to me that one of the miracles we see is Owen's transformation as 'the other' into Mrs. wheelwright's friend in their shared love of Liberace on television.

Jan 19, 2013 18:37:01 GMT -5 gilmorefanalways said:

I agree their common love for Liberace did bring them together and made them friends rather than just that boy with the voice. I was surprised and excited that she decided to pay Owens way

It is interesting that Mrs. Wheelwright and Owen enjoyed the same shows and that they both liked to critique. Both are very opinionated so it is a good thing they had similar opinions. I think it is especially amusing that they both adored Liberace. I remember Liberace and he was as flamboyant as he is described in the book. He had a beautifuI smile and was very warm and friendly. I recall “he was always kind to his mother” as a euphemism for the person having little talent. That does not apply to Liberace because he was a gifted artist. I am amazed at how fast he can play the piano. He and Little Richard would have put on quite a show together.

You two are fast too, like Liberace!

[AntiArbitrator]

Jan 19, 2013 18:29:56 GMT -5 gilmorefanalways said:

And about owen discovering his sexuality i was surprised i guess mostly because i had come to respect Owen kind of as above normal people like he was a step above, but to hear of him discovering his sexuality it reminded me that he too is human

It amuses me that Owen considered himself an authority on the shape of women’s breasts.

Yes, it shows Owen is human, but he is different from his peers because he showed respect by not talking about his dates. He even wrote an editorial chastising the other students for talking.

[gilmorefanalways]

Also I'm unsure if it was just me or not but i think the further we get into the book the easier the chapters are to read they have a better flow

[AntiArbitrator]

I agree, Jen; suddenly I did not want to stop reading even when it was 1 AM.

P.S. I used a semi-colon.

[Mistermoonlight]

Jan 19, 2013 18:49:34 GMT -5 AntiArbitrator said:

Jan 19, 2013 18:29:56 GMT -5 gilmorefanalways said:

And about owen discovering his sexuality i was surprised i guess mostly because i had come to respect Owen kind of as above normal people like he was a step above, but to hear of him discovering his sexuality it reminded me that he too is human

It amuses me that Owen considered himself an authority on the shape of women’s breasts.

I do think Owen is a step above his peers because he showed respect by not talking about his dates. He even wrote an editorial chastising the other students for talking.

Yes, Owen is a gentleman in this area, for sure.

[Mistermoonlight]

Jan 19, 2013 18:55:38 GMT -5 AntiArbitrator said:

I agree, Jen; suddenly I did not want to stop reading even when it was 1 AM.

P.S. I used a semi-colon.

[gilmorefanalways]

Those are good points anti it was just weird to hear owen talk of such things i guess its akin to hearing your parentstalk about such things. I however did not know of Liberace until this novel i have yet to watch a video of his but am anxious to

[AntiArbitrator]

Jan 19, 2013 19:03:35 GMT -5 Mistermoonlight said:

Jan 19, 2013 18:55:38 GMT -5 AntiArbitrator said:

I agree, Jen; suddenly I did not want to stop reading even when it was 1 AM.

P.S. I used a semi-colon.

As present day John was thinking about his students, it crossed my mind that Gilmorefanalways and MisterMoonlight could have discussed the “quality of eternal reassurance” in Gatsby’s smile better than the inattentive Grade 13 students in John’s class.

[AntiArbitrator]

Jan 19, 2013 19:06:48 GMT -5 gilmorefanalways said:

Those are good points anti it was just weird to hear owen talk of such things i guess its akin to hearing your parentstalk about such things. I however did not know of Liberace until this novel i have yet to watch a video of his but am anxious to

Did you watch the clip MisterMoonlight posted above? It shows how charming Liberace was.

Watchtower, that was a good talking point. Please re-post it.

[Mistermoonlight]

Jan 19, 2013 19:09:48 GMT -5 AntiArbitrator said:

Jan 19, 2013 19:03:35 GMT -5 Mistermoonlight said:

As present day John was thinking about his students, it crossed my mind that Gilmorefanalways and MisterMoonlight could have discussed the “quality of eternal reassurance” in Gatsby’s smile better than the inattentive Grade 13 students in John’s class.

We did? Wow.

It was so awesome that this selection touched back on one of our previous selections , Gatsby.

[gilmorefanalways]

Anti for some reason my quote button is not working but what you said about us being fast is funny it made me laugh

[gilmorefanalways]

Anti you get extra points for using that! I never remember what they are for nor can I ever remember to use them

[Watchtower]

Jan 19, 2013 19:12:47 GMT -5 AntiArbitrator said:

Jan 19, 2013 19:06:48 GMT -5 gilmorefanalways said:

Those are good points anti it was just weird to hear owen talk of such things i guess its akin to hearing your parentstalk about such things. I however did not know of Liberace until this novel i have yet to watch a video of his but am anxious to

Did you watch the clip MisterMoonlight posted above? It shows how charming Liberace was.

Watchtower, that was a good talking point. Please re-post it.

I was saying how in this chapter, we learn that John seems to have a learning disability. I do like what the Voice had to say about it. John was sent to a shrink because he could not spell properly. Owen has explained this so well, especially since this was a time where people did not know much about learning disabilities. He is right, a learning disability is not a matter for a shrink because a learning disability and a mental illness are two different things. A learning disability is something like, dyslexia or dysgraphia while a mental illness is something like, depression or anxiety.

[gilmorefanalways]

Moon that is ironically awesome isn't it I always find little ties in whatever I'm reading that link to other books I have read and for me it always feels reassuring. It reminds me of fate and how all the pieces eventually fit together that may sound crazy but it reminds me of this

[AntiArbitrator]

Jan 19, 2013 18:18:54 GMT -5 gilmorefanalways said:

I am very surprised by the turn of events at the academy and the reputation Owen has earned for himself. He is literally all the things i didn't think he would become. Id expected him to have a rough time at the academy and to flounder while John flourished i had expected Owen to be bullied mercilessly.i had expected johns friendship with him to suffer but how wrong was i ! Owen breaking fingers! And what's more owen discussing the breasts of classmates. And i so admire owen for taking that year to stay with john in the public school what a friend. It seems owen really came into his own ( i hate sounding cliche lol) but that's truly the only term i can find for it.

Thanks, Jen.

Jen made a lot of interesting points in this one post. I want to touch on the changing relationship between John and Owen. Owen’s sacrifice to repeat a grade to remain in the grade with John was viewed by the adults as a touching sign of loyalty, but John was beginning to resent Owen’s power over him. I can understand John resenting his dependence on Owen which later extended to more than school work. Plus, his grandmother seemed to have more in common with Owen as time progressed.

[gilmorefanalways]

Chloe you are right Owen could see things so clearly while others could not

[AntiArbitrator]

Jan 19, 2013 19:27:59 GMT -5 Watchtower said:

Jan 19, 2013 19:12:47 GMT -5 AntiArbitrator said:

Did you watch the clip MisterMoonlight posted above? It shows how charming Liberace was.

Watchtower, that was a good talking point. Please re-post it.

I was saying how in this chapter, we learn that John seems to have a learning disability. I do like what the Voice had to say about it. John was sent to a shrink because he could not spell properly. Owen has explained this so well, especially since this was a time where people did not know much about learning disabilities. He is right, a learning disability is not a matter for a shrink because a learning disability and a mental illness are two different things. A learning disability is something like, dyslexia or dysgraphia while a mental illness is something like, depression or anxiety.

Thank you. I am glad you expanded on this.

I recall Owen telling John that John was almost as smart as him. Nobody could determine that from John's test scores, but Owen could tell. I admire Owen's willingness to write editorials on whatever he believes to be right and he wrote one about that topic. Learning how to read differently than others made a dynamic change in John's life. This is probably one of the things John was referring to when he said he owed a lot to Owen.