A Prayer for Owen Meany by John Irving- DISCUSSION

[Mistermoonlight]

Jan 20, 2013 14:06:35 GMT -5 AntiArbitrator said:

I enjoyed the song and the simplicity used to deliver the message. On a personal note, I think I continue to enjoy each day and am never bored because I have not lost that sense of wonder.

As I was listening, I had a sense of wonder at how, during each of our discussions, I see another way of interpreting "Hallelujah". I will see it one way, then next time, I interpret it another way. Will it never end?

If it does, we're dead.

I would say that to live each day to it's fullest requires a sense of wonder. There are those who would drag it down, because it's a challenge to their smaller world.

Luckily we don't have to live there.

[gilmorefanalways]

Jan 19, 2013 20:57:41 GMT -5 AntiArbitrator said:

Gosh, I think Owen knew John was interested in Hester, and I hope no one else knew, but I don't know for sure. The family probably did not want a non-family boy staying overnight because they could not trust Hester. Even if Owen was not interested, they still would not trust Hester. Remember the scene at the wedding when the adults could tell Hester had lost her underwear? They probably thought she was misbehaving.

Edit: It surprised me that John's interest in Hester was enduring even though he was exposed to other girls at middle school an d on the beach. Hester seemed to be his model for sexuality. I don't really know what to make of that.

I was laughing so hard over the panty fiasco especially when john was saying the old crones thought Hester had some of Tabithas trouble in her

[AntiArbitrator]

I'm sure Owen still has the panties.

[Mistermoonlight]

Owen never throws anything away.

My cousin Cheryl would call him a 'hoarder,' which is is a term those who don't understand collectors use.

I'm into the next chapter just a ways now, and am enjoying the fact that I remember nothing of John and Owen's trip to Boston. It's like reading it for the first time.

[AntiArbitrator]

"The Dream" is a great chapter. It has one of my favorite scenes so far and I am still reading it.

[Mistermoonlight]

I just sailed through the rest of the chapter last night and today. It's so hard to make myself stop reading it--that's how much forward momentum this novel has.

It's a struggle to force myself to slow down and make it last, just as it was the first time I read it.

Owen's diary entry at the end of the chapter gave me a sad wistful chill that stayed with me for a good while after I read it.

[AntiArbitrator]

Indeed, it was a profound ending to the chapter.

I can start "The Finger" now, but I am sleepy so I probably won't get much read.

[Mistermoonlight]

Goodnight, Anti.

I'm betting the favorite scene was Reverend Merril's request at the podium during the Gravesend Acadamy 'morning meeting.'

[AntiArbitrator]

The morning meeting is now my favorite scene, but originally I was giving Owen kudos for his proposition of Mrs. Lish.

[AntiArbitrator]

My Tim just surprised me with a visit. I will post at six tonight, but I might not post as much. I'll see how it goes.

[Mistermoonlight]

Hi folks. I'm here finally. Just got in from a shopping trip. Let me put things away and I'll be back in a minute or two.

[AntiArbitrator]

The Dream

I can tell Owen never wavered from his belief that he is God’s instrument and that John’s disbelief has little effect, if any, on Owen. I respect Owen for not backing down when people challenge him for “knowing” things that normal people would not know. He continued to instruct John on matters of faith, but it does not seem to me that John realized at the time that he was being instructed.

I was as surprised as John when Owen guided their activities so they would visit the places that would provide information about Tabitha. I had a gut feeling there was something not quite right about that red dress, but I was shocked when the truth was revealed.

[gilmorefanalways]

Sorry guys I'm having an issue accessing the site

[AntiArbitrator]

I'll see you guys when you are available. I'll be MIA part of the time too.

Although John referred to the trip to Boston as their first quarrel, it does not seem like too much of a quarrel to me. I think John went along rather calmly in spite of his disappointment at the restrictions Owen’s moralist view was imposing on him. That might have been one of the most interesting trips the boys would ever take. I cannot imagine what it is like to think you know someone very well and then learn they have a secret life. Owen put it very well when he told John that he does not know who his mother is either. In spite of his shock, I admire John for wanting to protect Dan from any knowledge that would hurt him or make him think John did not think he was a good enough dad.

[gilmorefanalways]

Anti i agree that red dress was like a to be continued. You knew more was coming and that things didn't had up right and that whatever was coming was BIG! Lol it all makes sense to me now i felt a little disappointed in john for not having a photo of his mother i think even though owen knew of where he planned to visit i believe he always carried a photo of Tabitha .

[AntiArbitrator]

Jen, I think that is a good observation. I bet Owen did always keep Tabby close.

[Mistermoonlight]

Before I comment on chapter 7, I just realized that I had marked a few lines in chapter 6 that made me laugh, and that I forgot to mention last week.

"When Lydia was alive, my grandmother seemed content with her reading; either she or Lydia took turns reading aloud to each other, or they forced Germaine to read aloud to them--while they rested their eyes and exercised their acute interest in educating Germaine. But after Lydia died, Germaine refused to read aloud to my grandmother; Germaine was convinced that her reading aloud to Lydia had either killed Lydia or had hastened her death, and Germaine was resolute in not wanting to murder Grandmother in a similar fashion. For a while my grandmother read aloud to Germaine: but this afforded Grandmother no opportunity to rest her eyes, and she would often interrupt her reading to make sure that Germaine was paying proper attention. Germaine could not possibly pay attention to the subject--she was so intent on keeping herself alive for the duration of the reading."

Now that is a masterfully funny paragraph.

[gilmorefanalways]

Anti i too loved owen for the propositioning owen is a very unpredictable character and so funny

[AntiArbitrator]

MisterMoonlight, each line made that a delightful paragraph to read, especially trying to keep herself alive because someone is reading to her.

Jen, part of the appeal to the Scene between Owen and Mrs. Lish is that Owen knew how to make an exit. I can just see him making that proposition and while the Lishes were shocked, Owen calmly put on his coat and walked away.

[Mistermoonlight]

Jan 26, 2013 18:35:14 GMT -5 gilmorefanalways said:

Anti i agree that red dress was like a to be continued. You knew more was coming and that things didn't had up right and that whatever was coming was BIG! Lol it all makes sense to me now i felt a little disappointed in john for not having a photo of his mother i think even though owen knew of where he planned to visit i believe he always carried a photo of Tabitha .

Great observation, Jen. Right on target, I think. Owen probably did always carry a photo of Tabby.

Now that's really masterful writing--when an author creates a character so powerfully that you know what that character would do without ever being told in the text.

[Watchtower]

I figured Owen was up to something on that trip to Boston, but I was surprised at what they found out.

[Mistermoonlight]

I'm thinking that John Irving must have really loved writing this piece of dialogue between Owen and John, when they're discussing creating a play that would attract John's real father into attendance:

"I suppose you're a writer," I said; Owen shrugged.

"IT CAN'T BE VERY HARD," Owen repeated.

[gilmorefanalways]

This chapter is very eventful and very emotionally packed. I feel and fear a falling out between owen and john at least on Johns side owen however is still the loyal friend putting off his educational wants for john, just so they can remain friends and to help john john owes so much to owen i wonder if maybe some of the growing hostility we see quick flashes of on Johns side is because john realizes that or perhaps he feels he is holding owen back.

[Mistermoonlight]

We also see Owen's disillusionment towards President Kennedy, a man he had revered in this chapter. When he finds out about JFK's dalliance with Marilyn Monroe I think he begins to realize that he can only listen to what he hears as God's message for himself--to not place his admiration in earthly things or leaders.

A message he more than takes to heart in dealing with Gravesend Academy headmaster Randy White.

[AntiArbitrator]

Jan 26, 2013 19:12:04 GMT -5 gilmorefanalways said:

This chapter is very eventful and very emotionally packed. I feel and fear a falling out between owen and john at least on Johns side owen however is still the loyal friend putting off his educational wants for john, just so they can remain friends and to help john john owes so much to owen i wonder if maybe some of the growing hostility we see quick flashes of on Johns side is because john realizes that or perhaps he feels he is holding owen back.

I have thought about this too. Owen seems very determined to remain by John's side no matter the sacrifice. I have wondered if Owen has had a vision that involves John because Owen's loyalty is rather extreme.

I agree John might resent Owen because John is aware of his dependence on Owen. I wonder if John has developed an emotional dependence on Owen because he acts like Robin to Owen's Batman.

[AntiArbitrator]

Jan 26, 2013 19:20:19 GMT -5 Mistermoonlight said:

We also see Owen's disillusionment towards President Kennedy, a man he had revered in this chapter. When he finds out about JFK's dalliance with Marilyn Monroe I think he begins to realize that he can only listen to what he hears as God's message for himself--to not place his admiration in earthly things or leaders.

A message he more than takes to heart in dealing with Gravesend Academy headmaster Randy White.

I had a little fun with the following paragraph by using five of the Dictionary Words for the Day.

Owen knew it was not en regles for Mrs. Lish to gossip about President Kennedy, but the Lishes thought Owen’s rejection was pure brabble. While they were insulting Owen with their derisive laughter, he said “IF YOU WANTED TO SLEEP WITH ME—I MEAN NOW, WHEN I’M NOT THE PRESIDENT, AND I’M NOT MARRIED—WHAT THE HELL, I SUPPOSE I’D TRY IT.” Then Owen said “WELL? COME ON, WOULD YOU OR WOULDN’T YOU?” Then he exited. It’s very important to know when to take one’s exit and Owen timed it perfectly. Fortunately, Dan was willing, once again, to defend him against Headmaster White. Owen’s allocution on why he made the remarks did not gorgonize Mr. White the way he was able to mesmerize the students; therefore, Owen was placed on probation. Owen was antipathetic toward the restrictions imposed upon him.

[gilmorefanalways]

Chloe owen did seem suspicious

[AntiArbitrator]

I can’t help it; I am fascinated by the spiritual remarks that Owen makes so effortlessly. It does not seem to me that he looks around to see if anyone is going to think he is weird or that he even cares what others will think about his remarks. For instance, I felt like cheering at a conversation between Owen and John. When Owen’s practice enabled him to dunk the ball in under 4 seconds, he told the janitor to set the clock for 3 seconds. When Owen said “IT TAKES A LITTLE MORE FAITH”, John said “It takes more practice” and Owen responded “FAITH TAKES PRACTICE.”

Again, Owen’s encouragement to John made good sense to me. “GOD CAN TELL YOU WHO YOUR FATHER IS, BUT YOU HAVE TO BELIEVE IT—YOU’VE GOT TO GIVE A LITTLE HELP! ...”

When Owen said Hester’s drunkenness was because she was ahead of her time, he admitted “I DON’T KNOW HOW I KNOW. I JUST KNOW THAT I KNOW.”

Owen is special and when Owen says these things, his faith makes perfectly good sense, but I know it is not easy for the rest of us.

I am looking forward to the discussion on the dream and the diary entries, but I do not want to start it. I’m sure I cannot do it justice.

[gilmorefanalways]

Moon i liked what owen said in reference to writing Owen is always so sure of himself I'm sure owen can do anything

[AntiArbitrator]

As writers, I'm sure Jen, Chloe and MisterMoonlight enjoyed that comment about writing not being hard.