Re: The Castiel Skeptics Society

[windykl]

Mar 14, 2012 7:11:20 GMT -5 ravanne said:

I could probably tolerate Castiel's presence if it weren't for the fact that there is no balance in the storytelling between Sam and Dean. Dean is the only that everyone loves and rallies around while Sam is more or less only tolerated. Dean is Bobby's favorite serrogate son (stated outright under the truth spell back in YCHTT). Ellen's spirit communicates with Dean to encourage him while Sam has the hell memories perculating in his head and gets nothing. Dean gets the final touching moments with the people that they rescue (even if Sam is ultimately the one who does the saving, but what does that matter?). Dean is the one who gets a pet angel that he shares a "profound bond' with, and what does Sam get? A snarky Lucifer haunting his brain and reminding him of being tortured and raped for over a century. Yeah... that's fair. *rolls eyes*

I know that the EDGs and ECGs are sick of hearing this (too bad!), but there has been absoluely no balance in giving both the main characters focus in several years now. Dean's storyline is Dean's storyline and Sam's storyline mostly now ends up being about Dean and how it affects him. We are now well past the halfway mark this season and has gotten only a single episode that really clues us in on just what Sam is dealing with. And from the begining of this season, the primary focus for what is happening to Sam has been viewed through a prism on how it affects Dean. That was Bobby's first concern after Sam's collapse in MTNB - how was this impacting on Dean, who already had so much to Deal with.

Castiel's return just at the point where the focus was supposed to finally shift to Sam and give his storyline some real attention could not come at a worse time. Again, the storyline might be about saving Sam on the surface, but the emotional meat of the storyline will be about Dean and whatever bond he has with Castiel. That has been the media focus, the focus of all the spoilers and all the excitment about this phase of the season. Sam doesn't even get the scraps of storytelling any longer. Now his whole storyline is going to be reduced to giving Castiel a means toward redemption (as if fixing one thing that it broke makes up for all the other deaths that it directly caused, Bobby's included).

Had Sam's storyline been given proper focus, and had the SPN universe and everyone in it not completely revolved around Dean and Dean alone, I might not be as angry and offended as I am now. But this is going to be another example of what happenes to Sam being far less about Sam than Dean or Castiel. And Sam will be reduced to wallpaper or a plot device yet again.

what's funny is another journalist went to set last friday and interviewed jared/jensen...her favorite is dean and she does like cas/misha...well another sam fan and her were talking on twitter and this fan was trying to express the imbalance and how dean always get the supporting characters....she said she doesn't see an imbalance and that sam had bobby, lucifer and ruby as supporting characters, lol...dean had bobby, cas, and lisa...i was like lucifer and ruby didn't support sam--they hindered him, lol...

she also said that jared doesn't feel slighted and loves where sam's storyline is going....

[1027phoenix]

How would she know how Jared feels? Has he told he this?
Even if Jared does like Sam's storyline, I don't because we never get to see how Sam feels about anything that happens to him. I don't care how Dean feels about what's happened to Sam, I want to find out from Sam.

[windykl]

Mar 14, 2012 19:51:55 GMT -5 1027phoenix said:

How would she know how Jared feels? Has he told he this?
Even if Jared does like Sam's storyline, I don't because we never get to see how Sam feels about anything that happens to him. I don't care how Dean feels about what's happened to Sam, I want to find out from Sam.

lol..that was my reaction when i read her tweet.....i don't know how she knows..i just know she's trying to post the interview on thurs......it seems like all the journalists are telling us to just wait and see how the episode turns out...like dismissing our opinons/fear, etc...i'm tired of cas/misha being the one they're promoting and gushing over.....

[MariaARIS3]

Mar 14, 2012 3:51:19 GMT -5 chloekins said:

I know the storyline for season 8. Sam disappears and Dean and Cas hunt for him. That way it's all about Sam even though he's never seen. I tell ya I just want to throw things at these stupid people.

Spot on Chloe!!!

As for cadlymac's tweet, I tweeted her after that asking if this was supposed to make me happy and wrote sth similar, that I don't want an episode where Deana and Cas are all about Sam, but that I actually want to see Sam... She answered me that Sam will be in the episode... Of course this doesn't mean that he will have an active part too...

[Lostcause]

I think Jared has said a few times he's really happy about Sam this season, granted it might be when he read the script only - but I am almost sure he's done positive comments on the Season 7 Sam, so she's not grabbing it out of thin air.

Of course, one could say he'd hardly talk down his character when the show is on a "maybe" still for a season 8 (especially before they won the PCA).

I do find it hard to picture a storyline where Cas improves Sammys on screen time AND his story unfolding. But I've been surprised before!

[ravanne]

Jared would never say anything negative about the show. He is a professional and he won't make any issues he might have (if he has issues) public. That's just not his way. And they have given his character an interesting direction to go in, unquestionably. But the appalling lack of on screen focus and perspective can make the most intriguing storyline fall short.

It is frustrating to me that Sam's storyline, which should have had the primary focus this season alongside the Leviathan storyline has been ignored in favor of yet another replay of Dean's "woe is me" routine. In season 4, the imbalance was justified because Dean was in hell and rightly, that should have been the primary focus. Well, Sam's hell experiences in contrasts are playing out almost exclusively off screen. Until Repo Man, the show seemed to actively try to downplay what Sam was going through, and then suddenly spring on us that yes, what's going on with Sam is really that bad. It's no wonder that it comes across as unsatisfying.

The timing of Castiel's return (if it must return at all) could not come at a worse time because all focus on Sam's situation has shifted completely to Castiel, and to a lesser degree Dean. Again, Sam's storyline isn't about Sam himself, but about giving Castiel a means to redeem itself, and for Dean to have a goal or objective. It is grating enough to Sam's storyline constantly used to only service Dean's, but to have it used now for Castiel is especially galling.

I emplained very clearly in my Sam's missing POV thread that my biggest bone of contention is not the Castiel itself, but what the character has done to the show and how the writers have chosen to handle the storyline. Since's Castiel's introduction, the storyline has shifted completely in focusing on Dean's POV and as such, all supporting characters primarily interact with the Winchesters through Dean. Castiel is no exception to that. After watching Castiel manipulate both Sam and Dean throughout season 4 and never own up to anything it did or the harm that it caused their relationship pretty much poisoned the character to me.

[Lostcause]

I had the same feeling with Cas as with Ruby.

I enjoyed what they added at the time, but once the story had resolved everything between the brothers that Cas/Ruby may have caused (demon blood, saying yes/no to Michael and Lucy, stopping the apocalypse) I was pretty happy with them being killed or sent to heaven as it was and have the Winchesters back on the road, hunting monsters and solving mysteries. I still miss that feel, I think Repo man and Bobbys death were the only 2 episodes that really felt a bit like the olden days since then.

And fully agree, that if Cas was to return, he should definately have been introduced during Deans supposed half of the season and his story, it might actually have given Dean something to react to and move beyond the angsty Dean that is only now barely showing some sign of change.

Making Cas appear right when we return to Sam and his hellussions is almost certain to interfere in that. Wether they don't mean to, it's more or less a given that they will cut out scene time with Sam and Sam/Lucy.
It's making me "hope" Sam doesn't solve it all in this season, and we get more of it in the first half of next.

With the time reamining this season they want to solve the riddle of the Levis, have Sam deal with his helltime and make Cas return...that's a hell of a lot of plot in a very little time.

[anicat]

Just jumping in here for a quick note: Shadowhund, if you drop by, I sent you a PM!

...And now back to your regularly scheduled discussion! Carry on, troops!

[ravanne]

Mar 15, 2012 12:46:42 GMT -5 Lostcause said:

And fully agree, that if Cas was to return, he should definately have been introduced during Deans supposed half of the season and his story, it might actually have given Dean something to react to and move beyond the angsty Dean that is only now barely showing some sign of change.

Making Cas appear right when we return to Sam and his hellussions is almost certain to interfere in that. Wether they don't mean to, it's more or less a given that they will cut out scene time with Sam and Sam/Lucy.
It's making me "hope" Sam doesn't solve it all in this season, and we get more of it in the first half of next.

With the time reamining this season they want to solve the riddle of the Levis, have Sam deal with his helltime and make Cas return...that's a hell of a lot of plot in a very little time.

If Castiel had ever had any real interactions with Sam that were independant of Dean, I might not be so pessimistic. But that has never been the case. I can only think of two scenes where it was just Sam and Castiel together - the first being when Castiel tried to greet Sam after Sam's soul was restored (and had its hug rebuffed) and the second when Castiel pulled Sam (part of him) from the cage and then abandoned him when it was clear that something wasn't right. When Castiel called Sam its friend in AAH, it was nearly laughable because we certainly saw nothing of a friendship being developed. We never saw them talking the way Castiel would talk to Dean. Castiel never sought Sam himself out, or offered support or council. Sam was of some marginal importance to Castiel because Sam was important to Dean. That was the only reason.

And it was the reason that Castiel knew back in season 4 that it could use what was happening with Sam to manipulate Dean. And it was the reason that Castiel broke Sam's wall when Dean didn't fall in line and back off. The very idea that Castiel would cause that kind of horrific damage to someone that it actually saw as a friend, and not just someone to be tolerated and made nice with because of his importance to the real object of Castiel's focus is laughable.

Which is precisely why Castiel's return will have absolutely nothing to do with Sam. Castiel isn't returning specifically out of a sense of guilt over what it did to Sam, regret for how it treated someone that it called its friend. Dean is the one who seeks Castiel out, and Castiel's interactions will again be with Dean and Dean alone. Sam is once again marginalized in his own storyline.

I really don't know if the writers are taking any of this into account when they planned the season out like this. I want to believe that they are not deliberately marginalizing a main character in favor of a supporting one, but that is what has happened. The moment that Sam's trauma became less about Sam than providing a means for Castiel to return and have its "closure" was the moment that they made it clear that Sam will always be a lesser consideration. Sam is no longer a character in his own right, but has been reduced to being a plot device. The only bright light I see in all this is that Jared is enjoying the acting challenges that this plot is affording him. It's a lot more engaging than Dean's eternal "woe is me" expression.

[Lostcause]

It's odd though isn't it. When they first introduced the Angels, I was so sure Sam was the one to embrace them and slowly have to make Dean accept and trust these winged beings. Mostly based on the older episode where Sammy reveals he has a very strong faith and wants to believe the spirit of the priest is actually an angel, and Dean spends the whole episode, except the very last minutes, laughing at the thought of god and angels.

So yeah, I never expected Cas and Sam to have that little to do with eachother. There was so much potential for scenes of Sam asking all kinds of questions regarding faith and religion.

Then again I bet that's why they never went there, fearing to step on some religious toes.

My girlfriend asked me if I thought Cas was coming back because they simply couldn't get Mark P to appear often enough to fully take the story of Sam and Hell the way they originally planned.

Anyone know if there has been trouble getting Mark P to find time? I seem to find him in shows everywhere so he must be busy.
At any rate if that is true, one can always hope that bringing Cas back, means he'll have a lot more to do with Sam and his dealing with the hell time.

[ravanne]

The destruction of Sam's deep and lifelong faith is probably the single cruelest thing done to him. The moment when Sam met Castiel, and you saw that look of wonder on his face. The realization that his faith was not misplaced and there was Heaven and that the angels were finally taking an active role in saving humanity. And how was he greeted?

The boy with the demon's blood.

Sam's genuine faith was thrown back in his face over something that he'd had no control over. Over something that was done to him without his consent and set him on a path that he had no power to refuse. Dean, who never believed or prayed would be the tool of Heaven while Sam was condemned out of hand.

Yeah... any wonder why I'm more than ready to see the last of these feathered idiots? Except for Gabriel, not a single one of them - Castiel included - is worth spit.

[1027phoenix]

Mar 15, 2012 20:00:29 GMT -5 ravanne said:

The destruction of Sam's deep and lifelong faith is probably the single cruelest thing done to him. The moment when Sam met Castiel, and you saw that look of wonder on his face. The realization that his faith was not misplaced and there was Heaven and that the angels were finally taking an active role in saving humanity. And how was he greeted?

The boy with the demon's blood.

Sam's genuine faith was thrown back in his face over something that he'd had no control over. Over something that was done to him without his consent and set him on a path that he had no power to refuse. Dean, who never believed or prayed would be the tool of Heaven while Sam was condemned out of hand.

Yeah... any wonder why I'm more than ready to see the last of these feathered idiots? Except for Gabriel, not a single one of them - Castiel included - is worth spit.

I would say especially Castiel is not worth wasting spit on.

[JazzBeePrime]

i don't know if you all have seen it, but supposedly, both jared and jensen are interested in the idea of a 'reset' of the past season or so. they want many of the characters that the writers so needlessly killed off,back. that doesnt sound to me,like the boys are all that pleased with where the writers have taken the show. sounds to me like ek better get his butt back to the spn offices,pronto.

i may still like the character of cas, but he's long outlived his expiration date. some of us have been going on twitter and fb to counter the cas fanatics, setting the record straight, that the majority of the fandom does not want castiel back.

[ravanne]

Mar 15, 2012 22:12:34 GMT -5 JazzBeePrime said:

i may still like the character of cas, but he's long outlived his expiration date. some of us have been going on twitter and fb to counter the cas fanatics, setting the record straight, that the majority of the fandom does not want castiel back.

This is the biggest point of the biggest problem with Castiel being in the show - it has gone on long past the point that there was any rational reason for the character being there. Castiel was a part of a very specific storyline - the Apocalypse. The build up and the resolution. Once that storyline was done, the writers were left in a bit of a quandary. Misha was under contract to be in season 7, but there was no clear place in the storyline for Castiel to fit in any longer. So the writers had to make a place for it. And everything suffered as a result.

Some of the strongest criticisms that I've read from the pro-Castiel perspective was that season 7 distorted what Castiel was had been portrayed as previously. They did not like the idea of Castiel going dark because it violated what they believed the character was capable of. In my opinion, this is due at least in part to an unreasonable view of the character as being a perfectly good being (which would really require ignoring a great deal of its previous behavior and manipulations). But in all reality, what else could the writers do with Castiel to keep the character somewhat relevant to the show? Keeping Castiel around simply to stare longingly at Dean and basically just being a hanger on to Dean wouldn't satisfy anyone but the most radical Destiel fanatics. So they had to create a storyline for him and for the first time, it was completely independent of the Winchesters as a whole and Dean in particular. Instead of being the conduit that allowed Castiel to act and enter the storyline, Castiel became a completely independent actor with both the Winchesters now peripheral figures in Castiel's story. The thing that Castiel fans cherished the most - the close bond with Dean - was destroyed. And they were understandably distressed to see a character that they cared about now firmly in the role of villain (rather than the more ambiguous position it had enjoyed previously). They failed to understand that because the writers were obligated to make a place for Castiel in order for the character to remain on the show, that there was a chance that they wouldn't like what the end result was.

IMO, the apparent clamor for Castiel's redemption (and I think that it was not nearly as large as some Castiel fans want to make it out to be) is rooted in trying to "fix" what the mistake of keeping Castiel around in the first place caused. I think that many could accept Castiel being written out now, but only if Castiel is returned to the place that they felt it deserved of hero. Whether Castiel actually deserves to be considered a hero is certainly debatable, depending on your perspective of its actions. My opinion is that whatever good it did, whatever sacrifices it made are diluted by the fact that it never accepted responsibility for the role it played into setting things into motion and forcing the Winchesters to fulfill the roles that Heaven and Hell planned.

What some Castiel fans want to forget in their efforts to elevate Castiel's importance in the show that Castiel is a supporting character. Castiel's presence was to be an actor in Sam and Dean's story. And there are only two roles that fit in that mold. Ally or adversary. Once Castiel was acting in its own interests and was no longer part of Sam's and Dean's story, it became their enemy. I don't think there is any realistic way for the writers to pull Castiel back and give it redemption without it being contrived and coming at the expense of Sam and Dean.

[JazzBeePrime]

what irks me, is that some (fans that are soley pro-cas)made castiel's character into something he never was. he didn't make the show, the show temporarily made him. he was never meant to be anything other that a secondary character for a specific storyline. many of the pro-cas only fans claime that they started watching the show soley because of him. im sorry, but i have to call bs on that. i'm sure misha fans started watching to support misha, but the rest started watching because of the storyline, and settled on cas for whatever reason. now, while i may like castiel. its only the s4 version that i like. the only reason i started liking him at all, was because of his pulling dean out of hell. Had it been Gabriel that pulled dean out, i would have liked him (well, liked him more, since i already liked the trickster). it just amazes me that these people have somehow missed the crux of what this show is all about. 2 Brothers,their bond and their fight against supernatural baddies. i'm to the point where i wish they would just give cas his own freaking show, so the extreme cas fans have all cas, all the time and we can finally have our show back.

[SoCal]

Castiel was a good temporary addition to the show, but like others have said, he has LONG outlived his usefulness.

I'm afraid by bringing him back AGAIN, in whatever guise, is:

JUMPING THE CAS-SHARK

[zenezie]

Mar 15, 2012 22:12:34 GMT -5 JazzBeePrime said:

i may still like the character of cas, but he's long outlived his expiration date. some of us have been going on twitter and fb to counter the cas fanatics, setting the record straight, that the majority of the fandom does not want castiel back.

Cool! I especially like the part about setting the record straight. What's your twitter name and I'll follow you. Or maybe I'm already following you. PM if you like.

[shadowhund]

I want to apologise for my last comment here (I think it is in this thread)

All I can say again is that I went to far, I am so much disappointed with the spoilers and the lack of Sam all in all that I...I compare it with Sam's demon blood.....I drank from "the venom" myself and overreacted with those spoilers and with my frustration and disappointment and lashed out at Dean (!)

I loathe that they bring back Castiel exactly in the time where it should be Sam in front and center and I fear its exactly the contrary ..that I have Casstiel in the front and Dean in the center with each other and Sam only a few seconds!

I apologise to all my bi-bro-, Dean-, Sam-, brother fans here, what happened with me should be a mirror for all extreme fans. I don't apologise to all extreme fans, and especially extreme Castiel and Dean and Destiel fans ....I think.... especiallythe extreme one sided fans from whom I have to endure hateful comments about Sam in SPN since I started to be a part of the fandom in the internet in season 4.

For those fans I should be like a mirror with a magnifying glass, a repercussion to their personalities, I don't want to be a part of them!!

So I needed a break and couldn't even use computer to make sure that I don't lurk at spoilers and comments again which brings me only down!!

I don't know whether I will comment here again or if this is maybe my last one. We will see, I don't know right now!

I see that people still come here in the skeptics thread and post comments I would miss otherwise....

[Lostcause]

Certainly hope you'll keep stopping by and post Shadow, you're always polite and sincere in your posting and an asset to to any forum you are a part of.

As your Avatar correctly says - Hold on!

[ravanne]

Call me crazy, but soem of the latest spoilers on the winged rat's return have me just the slightest bit hopeful that this isn't going to be the absolute clusterf*ck that I've been dreading. Well, it still might be a clusterf*ck, but I think that those of us who haven't been salivating over Castiel's unwanted return. I except to hear an enormous amount of whining and complaining from the ECGs that "their" Castiel has not been returned and how TPTB have utterly ruined their favorite character.

thewinchesterfamilybusiness.com/to-spoil-or-not-to-spoil/16978-more-spoilers-for-supernatural-717-born-again-identity.html

So, lots of good stuff for Sam to do, protective big brother Dean and non-Castiel doing very not-Castiel things. I don't love Misha and I don't think that he's the Gods' gift to acting, but I have nothing against him personally and if revamping that flaming mess that his character was previously lets him have a a few weeks of work, that's not the end of the world.

Can't wait to watch Tumblr and TWOP positively explode when it suddenly dawns on the ECGs that they are not going to be getting back the character that they wanted.

[chloekins]

Mar 23, 2012 9:00:55 GMT -5 ravanne said:

Call me crazy, but soem of the latest spoilers on the winged rat's return have me just the slightest bit hopeful that this isn't going to be the absolute clusterf*ck that I've been dreading. Well, it still might be a clusterf*ck, but I think that those of us who haven't been salivating over Castiel's unwanted return. I except to hear an enormous amount of whining and complaining from the ECGs that "their" Castiel has not been returned and how TPTB have utterly ruined their favorite character.

thewinchesterfamilybusiness.com/to-spoil-or-not-to-spoil/16978-more-spoilers-for-supernatural-717-born-again-identity.html

So, lots of good stuff for Sam to do, protective big brother Dean and non-Castiel doing very not-Castiel things. I don't love Misha and I don't think that he's the Gods' gift to acting, but I have nothing against him personally and if revamping that flaming mess that his character was previously lets him have a a few weeks of work, that's not the end of the world.

Can't wait to watch Tumblr and TWOP positively explode when it suddenly dawns on the ECGs that they are not going to be getting back the character that they wanted.

The ECGs are already exploding over their beloved being married. I suppose it's too much to hope that the writers are going to put an end to the big tease they've been enjoying with the slash references and finally destroy for good the ECGs fantasies.

[ravanne]

Yeah, I read a few comments where the ECGs were whining over Castiel and Dean being soulmates (ignoring DSOTM apparently) and this was just more salt in their wounds.

And people at my office are wondering why I'm cackling like a loon.

[Mistermoonlight]

Mar 23, 2012 9:00:55 GMT -5 ravanne said:

Call me crazy, but soem of the latest spoilers on the winged rat's return have me just the slightest bit hopeful that this isn't going to be the absolute clusterf*ck that I've been dreading. Well, it still might be a clusterf*ck, but I think that those of us who haven't been salivating over Castiel's unwanted return. I except to hear an enormous amount of whining and complaining from the ECGs that "their" Castiel has not been returned and how TPTB have utterly ruined their favorite character.

thewinchesterfamilybusiness.com/to-spoil-or-not-to-spoil/16978-more-spoilers-for-supernatural-717-born-again-identity.html

So, lots of good stuff for Sam to do, protective big brother Dean and non-Castiel doing very not-Castiel things. I don't love Misha and I don't think that he's the Gods' gift to acting, but I have nothing against him personally and if revamping that flaming mess that his character was previously lets him have a a few weeks of work, that's not the end of the world.

Can't wait to watch Tumblr and TWOP positively explode when it suddenly dawns on the ECGs that they are not going to be getting back the character that they wanted.

Hey Ravanne, just wanted to let you know you can say 'clusterfuck' here. You don't have to censor it unless you yourself want to.

[zenezie]

Mar 23, 2012 12:08:32 GMT -5 ravanne said:

Yeah, I read a few comments where the ECGs were whining over Castiel and Dean being soulmates (ignoring DSOTM apparently) and this was just more salt in their wounds.

And people at my office are wondering why I'm cackling like a loon.

Hummm, then maybe they should stay away from the spoiler-tv poll of Sam vs Dean vs Cas poll. Sam is leading in the poll while Cas is in third, not surprising. Their head would probably explode that Sam is more popular than Cas!

[percysowner]

Mar 23, 2012 21:26:57 GMT -5 zenezie said:

Mar 23, 2012 12:08:32 GMT -5 ravanne said:

Yeah, I read a few comments where the ECGs were whining over Castiel and Dean being soulmates (ignoring DSOTM apparently) and this was just more salt in their wounds.

And people at my office are wondering why I'm cackling like a loon.

Hummm, then maybe they should stay away from the spoiler-tv poll of Sam vs Dean vs Cas poll. Sam is leading in the poll while Cas is in third, not surprising. Their head would probably explode that Sam is more popular than Cas!

Woo Hoo! Sam made it into the lead! Thank Goodness, when I was voting, Sam was in last place.

[chloekins]

One thing that made no sense to me about Friday's ep was why the demons suddenly appeared, especially since the reason was the flimsiest possible. Just because Crowley and taken off the Winchester taboo?

I figured out that SG put them in so there would be a reason for Cas to smite something so we'd be reminded of his mighty angel power, plus for there to be a reason to get his memory back and possibly to have Dean return the disgusting trench to him. Without the demons Dean and Cas could have just gone in and Cas could have cured Sam. Or not based on that silly idea that Sam's brain was just a mess of scrambled crumbs in his head, like what's left in the cereal box after all the cereal is gone.

It just shows how the writers have to twist themselves into knots and write the most ridiculous drivel in order to cram this worthless character back into the show.

[Lostcause]

I had the feeling throughout most of the episode that it was a double episode mushed into 1.

So many things were rushed over or not explained at all. Especially the whole demon/Meg thing. And of course the transition from Emmanuel to Cas.

I get why an angel with no memory was attractive to demons, so was Anna in her day, but it should have been given more attention. At least why and how they even caught on to him. And how did lowly demons get a wiff of this, and not Crowley himself? I missed him in this episode, though perhaps having both Lucy and Crowley in the same epi was too much to ask for this season.

As far as Cas goes..meh since they had to bring him back, I'm actually ok with how they went about it. Giving him no memory, just the "shell" when Dean found him, gave dean a reason to as much as talk to him, and once he became Cas he was nothing but redemption, which was cool. there is no way Dean would ever forgive him unless Sam was made ok again. I was of the mind "what can Cas ever do or say to redeem himself, bar fixing Sam." and lo and behold he did just that. Fair enough really, now I just pray and hope for him losing his angelic Deus Ex machina abilities for the rest of his appearances. He is simply too powerful to have around on the show, the danger kinda dies when you have an angel by your side.
I do think the return of Cas was as good as could be asked for now that we HAD to get the feathered man back!

Would I have liked this whole Sams crasyness matter to have taken half a season to resolve...mmmaybe not half a season but definately more than just 1 episode. The overall feeling I left this episode with was "rushed". I am probably one of the few people who is ok with how we've had Sam so far in the season. Sure I'm biased to Dean, but I've been sick and tired of "days of our lives" Dean, and it's been a pleasure to se Sam take his problems like a man. He doesn't cry or moan, he leaves just enough for me as a viewer to spot his pain and suffering, without doing monologues about his troubles.

When the hell did Sam become more Dean than Dean?!

[CaptainBill]

Yup, Cas' return was "meh, let's move on". The saving grace was Cas absorbing Sam's suffering and finally suffering the consequences of his own actions. My feeling is that since Sammy suffered centuries of hell torture, then Cas should be crazy cakes for centuries too.

Mar 24, 2012 10:14:45 GMT -5 percysowner said:

Mar 23, 2012 21:26:57 GMT -5 zenezie said:

Hummm, then maybe they should stay away from the spoiler-tv poll of Sam vs Dean vs Cas poll. Sam is leading in the poll while Cas is in third, not surprising. Their head would probably explode that Sam is more popular than Cas!

Woo Hoo! Sam made it into the lead! Thank Goodness, when I was voting, Sam was in last place.

Ha, I just checked that poll and the results are still the same: Sammy in the lead with something like 50 pts lead on Dean and 300 pts lead on Cas.

[SoCal]

I vote for: leave Cas in the psych ward. 'Nuff said?

[Aeryn]

Apr 8, 2012 19:46:21 GMT -5 SoCal said:

I vote for: leave Cas in the psych ward. 'Nuff said?