The Stand by Stephen King- DISCUSSION

[Mistermoonlight]

Aug 31, 2013 19:27:15 GMT -5 gilmorefanalways said:

Sadly though we lose someone dearly loved in chapter 61 and a sad way for him to go
It broke my heart to see the judge murdered and all I kept thinking when I knew the judge was right about it being close to the en for him was if Larry were there they would be an unbeatable team

I hadn't thought about that, but you're right. I still keep seeing Herschel's face from the Walking Dead when I think of the Judge.

There's a line on page 920, about halfway through the chapter that I thought was particularly descriptive: "Overhead the blue sky was beginning to silt up with mackerel scales."

[gilmorefanalways]

a good line that made me laugh is Dave's saying concerning people who talk to themselves on pg 924

[Mistermoonlight]

Aug 31, 2013 19:37:05 GMT -5 gilmorefanalways said:

Aug 31, 2013 19:30:12 GMT -5 Mistermoonlight said:

"The end of everything" gives the right amount of foreboding, plus it's a nice play on words, since we're moving into the end of the book.

That line 'you dogfaces want to live forever?' is one you hear in a lot of war movies when men are going into battle, often against great odds.

I like that the guys are able to find a few moments of lighter banter, too, like Glen's great line, "Chapter 43: The Bald-Headed Sociologist Dons His Sweat-Band." I laughed at that one.

I so love all the extras you bring into the book club I wouldn't have known about men saying that before going to war thank you for that!

Yes it does get you moving right along with them making you feel you are traveling too and if course in a way we are

I have a quick question concerning breaks like that in books when you come to another part in a book where the two parts are sectioned off with blank pages like it was between book two and book three what do you do?

And yes I love that line in chapter 60 I kept rereading it again and again!!!!

I'm probably not understanding the question, but I just turn the page and begin the next part.

Now, if a short break is given within a chapter itself, it sometimes means that some time has passed.

[gilmorefanalways]

That was a very descriptive line and it puts you right there with the judge living the day with him

[gilmorefanalways]

The rain seemed foreboding to me it was too dreary for anything good to be happening

[gilmorefanalways]

No im just curious if there is anything you do when you come to a break like that between books and so on

[gilmorefanalways]

I try not to think of him as Herschel because that would break my heart I love Herschel!!!!

[Mistermoonlight]

Aug 31, 2013 19:43:14 GMT -5 gilmorefanalways said:

a good line that made me laugh is Dave's saying concerning people who talk to themselves on pg 924

That one was pretty funny.

Another scene that struck me was the Judge's last night, at the hotel, when the crow appears at his window, reminding us of Edgar Allan Poe's "The Raven." I think it's meant to be a kind of tip of the hat to him, and it certainly does ratchet up the tension. Especially when we are told that the Judge has the feeling that it's Flagg grinning at him.

[gilmorefanalways]

What did you make of the crow at the window?
And we see how right the judge was about the crow at the end of chapter 61

[gilmorefanalways]

Great minds lol I didn't even look at your post before I posted my own about the crow

[gilmorefanalways]

You know I think you are right as Poe is known for his dark poems and so forth so yes it was as you say a tip of the hat to the judge but also he seemed to know something was going to happen

[Mistermoonlight]

Aug 31, 2013 19:50:00 GMT -5 gilmorefanalways said:

No im just curious if there is anything you do when you come to a break like that between books and so on

I guess it kinda depends. If I've read a lot and am getting sleepy and looking for a good place to stop, I'll do it there. If I'm really interested I'll just keep on reading, though.

Hope I'm getting closer to answering your question.

I do always keep in mind that when books are divided into sections like that, the author has a reason. Sometimes in these cases that can be to show the passage of time, too.

It also serves to structure the book more clearly like a three-act play when it's done like it is in The Stand. Beginning, middle, and end.

[gilmorefanalways]

I ask about the breaks because I wondered if other bookworms do the same as me
When I come to a break I stop and touch the pages and remember the journey the book has taken me on already and think of what's to come for me those blank pages that separate the book feel kind of like a safe haven a place where I can nestle inside the story not in the past or in the future but always right in the middle with adventure behind and before me

[gilmorefanalways]

I hope my explanation didn't sound crazy lol

[Mistermoonlight]

Aug 31, 2013 20:00:15 GMT -5 gilmorefanalways said:

You know I think you are right as Poe is known for his dark poems and so forth so yes it was as you say a tip of the hat to the judge but also he seemed to know something was going to happen

I meant a tip of the hat to Poe.

Have you read that one, "The Raven?"

It begins with a man reading a book late at night, just like The Judge is doing:

Once upon a midnight dreary, while I pondered, weak and weary, Over many a quaint and curious volume of forgotten lore—
While I nodded, nearly napping, suddenly there came a tapping,
As of some one gently rapping, rapping at my chamber door—
"'Tis some visitor," I muttered, "tapping at my chamber door—
Only this and nothing more."

From there it kinda degenerates into the Raven driving the man insane.

That quote "Nevermore" is a creepy foreshadowing of the Judge's fate.

[gilmorefanalways]

Yes I've read it a few times but not for years lol

[Mistermoonlight]

Aug 31, 2013 20:05:19 GMT -5 gilmorefanalways said:

I ask about the breaks because I wondered if other bookworms do the same as me
When I come to a break I stop and touch the pages and remember the journey the book has taken me on already and think of what's to come for me those blank pages that separate the book feel kind of like a safe haven a place where I can nestle inside the story not in the past or in the future but always right in the middle with adventure behind and before me

Aug 31, 2013 20:08:34 GMT -5 gilmorefanalways said:

I hope my explanation didn't sound crazy lol

No, it's beautiful. I love it.

You're the only person I've ever known to do that, but I think it's a great tradition.

Now there's a damn good reason why paper books are better. Try doing that with an eBook.

[gilmorefanalways]

I had thought you meant a tip of the hat to the judge meaning that since the judge would know the type of works poe usually wrote centering around death and dark themes this combined with the death feeling the judge would understand his time was short

I'd assumed you meant it was a way king had of telling his characters not much time was left

[gilmorefanalways]

Aha I just had that very discussion with someone I see at my job often
And of course I mentioned that you can't feel or smell an ebook I know I am weird but I sincerely love the smell of books

[Mistermoonlight]

Aug 31, 2013 20:21:05 GMT -5 gilmorefanalways said:

I had thought you meant a tip of the hat to the judge meaning that since the judge would know the type of works poe usually wrote centering around death and dark themes this combined with the death feeling the judge would understand his time was short

I'd assumed you meant it was a way king had of telling his characters not much time was left

I meant that King was showing us that, but it's clear that the Judge knows the poem, too, and is almost caught inside it.

When the Judge says to himself 'Like the raven that had flown in to roost on the bust of Pallas' he's referring to this line in the Poe Poem. (I don't think I've ever noticed how close 'Poe' is to 'poem' before tonight.)

Open here I flung the shutter, when, with many a flirt and flutter,
In there stepped a stately Raven of the saintly days of yore;
Not the least obeisance made he; not a minute stopped or stayed he; But, with mien of lord or lady, perched above my chamber door— Perched upon a bust of Pallas just above my chamber door— Perched, and sat, and nothing more.

So the Judge is definitely having a Poe-like experience and knows it.

[Mistermoonlight]

Aug 31, 2013 20:22:57 GMT -5 gilmorefanalways said:

Aha I just had that very discussion with someone I see at my job often
And of course I mentioned that you can't feel or smell an ebook I know I am weird but I sincerely love the smell of books

I'll go you one further. I actually prefer the smell of used books, as they seem to have more character to me--they seem more alive. But I love the smell of new books as well.

[gilmorefanalways]

I wanted to mention how I've seen so many links in the stand to other books king has done for instance how at the end of chapter 61 he says there were teeth it reminds me of It and how there was a line in that one where someone had seen the clown under a bridge I think it was and that it had someone down there how the clown had bit into the guys armpit as if he wanted to get to his heart
And all the other links we've discussed throughout our meetings and I wondered if King did this as a way to show that the monster of the stand was in a way a combination of all Kings monsters
If to show this was Kings worst monster

[gilmorefanalways]

Oh I see what you meant a tip of the hat as a sign of respect to Poe I thought you meant it as a tip of the cards a way to reveal something secret

[gilmorefanalways]

My brain is on analog tonight lol

[gilmorefanalways]

Aug 31, 2013 20:38:51 GMT -5 Mistermoonlight said:

Aug 31, 2013 20:22:57 GMT -5 gilmorefanalways said:

Aha I just had that very discussion with someone I see at my job often
And of course I mentioned that you can't feel or smell an ebook I know I am weird but I sincerely love the smell of books

I'll go you one further. I actually prefer the smell of used books, as they seem to have more character to me--they seem more alive. But I love the smell of new books as well.

I see I'm in good company people give me the what's wrong with her look when I smell books in public so I try only to do it at home lol

[Mistermoonlight]

Aug 31, 2013 20:40:02 GMT -5 gilmorefanalways said:

I wanted to mention how I've seen so many links in the stand to other books king has done for instance how at the end of chapter 61 he says there were teeth it reminds me of It and how there was a line in that one where someone had seen the clown under a bridge I think it was and that it had someone down there how the clown had bit into the guys armpit as if he wanted to get to his heart
And all the other links we've discussed throughout our meetings and I wondered if King did this as a way to show that the monster of the stand was in a way a combination of all Kings monsters
If to show this was Kings worst monster

I understand that Flagg shows up in some of King's other books, and like you suggested, is kind of the unseen power behind a lot of things. They mention the other books here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randall_Flagg
But there's no mention of Pennywise the clown from the novel It. So you just might be onto a connection no one else has caught before!

"There were teeth" is really a spooky, scary line.

[gilmorefanalways]

The links I've been seeing in this book connecting the stand to his other works are usually not put forth by name but instead as you say an implied connection as I linked "there were teeth" to the novel It because teeth were prominent with pennywise ( I don't like using its name )

[Mistermoonlight]

The Judge's death scene feels very realistic. His last line, "Oh bastard" sounds just like what I'd imagine he would say.

I think I discovered something, too. On page 918, just before the Judge's car passes by, Bobby Terry is reading a Batman comic. Just before he steps out of the car to meet the Judge, Dave tells Bobby, "Get a smile on, goddamn you," and King writes "Bobby Terry began to grin. It was like watching a mechanical funhouse clown grin."

I immediately thought of The Joker from Batman comics.

Then, I thought of Harold Lauder's smile.

And now, thanks to you, I'm seeing another possible tie-in to Pennywise.

[Mistermoonlight]

Speaking of Bobby Terry, what an idiot. He just can't hold off getting a chance to get a shot at the Judge, kills his partner, then practically blows the Judge's head off, setting himself up the ultimate 'You have failed me' moment with Randall Flagg.

I love the dread that filters in shortly after congratulating himself big-time for killing the Judge, when he realizes that what he's actually done is kill himself by disobeying Flagg's instructions.

[gilmorefanalways]

I'm telling you they are all in there! Lol

Speaking of smiles I'd made a note of how everyone is uneasy with flaggs grin I wondered if that's some sixth sense we all have that warns us when things just don't feel right