CFC (Please Read 1st Post)

[AntiArbitrator]

did you read rocket's "supernatural scoop"? it gives more info on castiel. i think it gives hope that we will get better closure for the character.

[KristinPhoenix]

I kinda got a bit POed at that, it just sounds like they're gonna bring him back and then kill him AGAIN!

Just "properly" this time.

[AntiArbitrator]

Jan 12, 2012 16:42:35 GMT -5 KristinPhoenix said:

I kinda got a bit POed at that, it just sounds like they're gonna bring him back and then kill him AGAIN!

Just "properly" this time.

yeah, that's exactly the way i interpret it. a way to appease the fans who hated the treatment of castiel. i hope they don't create more angst, but they seem to think the fans will be pleased.

[anicat]

Jan 12, 2012 18:39:16 GMT -5 AntiArbitrator said:

yeah, that's exactly the way i interpret it. a way to appease the fans who hated the treatment of castiel. i hope they don't create more angst, but they seem to think the fans will be pleased.

I'm reading it that way too...and that mention of the season cliffhanger? Oh please no Summer of Cas Angst again!!!!! There is only so much this poor fan can take. Friday's "Kill Kenny" observation is so very accurate, I mean, c'mon! The boys need at least one friend around that they can count on! This nuclear wasteland of desolation is getting way too depressing to watch.

I posted elsewhere that this is exactly the reason I quit watching "24." I was in love with the show, it's uniqueness and of course Jack...but there is only so much angst and awfulness and continuous physical and emotional whumpage - not to mention managing to kill off/remove everyone in Jack's life and leave him lost and damaged - it got too much and when there is no more light, no more hope, no friends, family or reason to keep on going....then I change the channel and find something more entertaining to watch.

Kill Cas - again! - and what's a good reason to continue to watch? It'd be like 24 all over again, and I'm not going back to that.

[yimhappy]

blog.zap2it.com/frominsidethebox/2012/01/supernatural-scoop-details-of-castiels-return-and-bobbys-resurrection.html


I remember, as 7.02 approached, Cas fans were divided. But some thought, oh no! what if Cas is the big bad for S7. Then after 7.02, LeviCas didn't look so bad. In fact, LeviCas looked a lot better than how S7 was shaping up.

Now I hear Cas fans complaining about Cas dying again.
You've got a right. Cas has become like Kenny.

But, my imagination says it might be so much worse.
Cas might return as an enemy that Dean/Sam have to kill. Oh milk that drama, Dean/Sam conflicted about killing Cas.
Remember Buffy/Angel at the end of S2, when Buffy has to kill Angel right after his soul returned, just so it was more poignant.
Yeah, that's what I'm bracing for. The worst.

Sorry to be a depressing dementor.

[yimhappy]

I don't know where you are Mags.
I see that you're gone from Twitter too.

I just want you to know that wherever you are, I'm praying for you.
I know that you are strong.
It was your post that finally made me "jump", and come onto this forum.
You are missed.

[cahtie]

Jan 12, 2012 20:28:15 GMT -5 yimhappy said:

blog.zap2it.com/frominsidethebox/2012/01/supernatural-scoop-details-of-castiels-return-and-bobbys-resurrection.html


I remember, as 7.02 approached, Cas fans were divided. But some thought, oh no! what if Cas is the big bad for S7. Then after 7.02, LeviCas didn't look so bad. In fact, LeviCas looked a lot better than how S7 was shaping up.

Now I hear Cas fans complaining about Cas dying again.
You've got a right. Cas has become like Kenny.

But, my imagination says it might be so much worse.
Cas might return as an enemy that Dean/Sam have to kill. Oh milk that drama, Dean/Sam conflicted about killing Cas.
Remember Buffy/Angel at the end of S2, when Buffy has to kill Angel right after his soul returned, just so it was more poignant.
Yeah, that's what I'm bracing for. The worst.

Sorry to be a depressing dementor.

Yeah.. see.. you're not a depressing dementor, SG is. She's seeking to sap the very souls out of her fandom. Its like they've been trying to kill this fandom, this show, and they might actually succeed with many come Castiel's arc.

I imagine that SG's finally going to get her way, by bringing back Castiel as evil (perhaps as some sort of angel/levi mutation) and have Dean have to kill him for his own good, or for the good of the world. That's the 'moral delema' I can sense coming.

I mean..seriously.. /what/ convinced them that this was a good idea? That this was one of those 'risky decisions' they should take? You're pissing off Cas fans BIG TIME. I can guarantee that not one cas fan is going to feel 'closure' by you dragging up their poor character, who's been pulled through the mud and dismissed as nothing but a plot tool, and killing him /again/. Not one skeptic wants to see him on the screen again, period, though I hazard a guess that a few of them will cackle with glee if Dean stabs Cas through the heart. They'll still be pissed if he gets any sort of redemption or tears shed.

So /why/ do this? Its utter Bull Shit.

[isitfridayyet]

I'm just hoping it's poor word choice. It's kind of a contradictory paragraph TBH. First, they acknowledge Casfans upset in how Castiel was sent off and seem to be saying they want to satisfy us, then they suggest they are going to kill Cas again and thus piss us off further? That doesn't make sense. Hopefully he just means closure to Castiel's arc starting with the purgatory thing. *hopes*

[yimhappy]

Cas fans have no choice but act ridiculous on Tumblr. For the record, I don't believe Dean/Cas have a homoerotic relationship. If they did, Zachariah would have dug at it.

But knowing fandom like I do. I still find this gif funny.

[yimhappy]

Bummer, Jared says Sam/Cas never loved each other. I guys cared about each other when they're "brother in arms". Cas risked the world, and fought Anna to help save Sam. I guess it doesn't mean anything.

www.examiner.com/tv-insider-in-los-angeles/q-a-supernatural-s-jared-padalecki-previews-clowns-shirtless-dean-crazy-sam

[Aeryn]

Jan 12, 2012 23:34:43 GMT -5 yimhappy said:

Cas fans have no choice but act ridiculous on Tumblr. For the record, I don't believe Dean/Cas have a homoerotic relationship. If they did, Zachariah would have dug at it.

But knowing fandom like I do. I still find this gif funny.

[jensenRick]

Jan 13, 2012 11:54:21 GMT -5 yimhappy said:

Bummer, Jared says Sam/Cas never loved each other. I guys cared about each other when they're "brother in arms". Cas risked the world, and fought Anna to help save Sam. I guess it doesn't mean anything.

www.examiner.com/tv-insider-in-los-angeles/q-a-supernatural-s-jared-padalecki-previews-clowns-shirtless-dean-crazy-sam

Maybe they never loved each other, but let's not forget- Sam forgave Cas. I think that means a lot.

[KristinPhoenix]

Maybe they never LOVED each other, in the same way that Dean, who was fond of Cas and loves Sam did but I think they at least had a somewhat healthy respect for one another and both realized they were important to Dean in their own different ways.

[jensenRick]

Jan 13, 2012 14:15:25 GMT -5 KristinPhoenix said:

Maybe they never LOVED each other, in the same way that Dean, who was fond of Cas and loves Sam did but I think they at least had a somewhat healthy respect for one another and both realized they were important to Dean in their own different ways.

I completely agree. I would even go so far as to say they considered each other friends. From the way he spoke at the end, I think Sam would welcome the opportunity to be friends again.
Would you say Cas would also?

[yimhappy]

Jan 13, 2012 22:34:57 GMT -5 jensenRick said:

Jan 13, 2012 14:15:25 GMT -5 KristinPhoenix said:

Maybe they never LOVED each other, in the same way that Dean, who was fond of Cas and loves Sam did but I think they at least had a somewhat healthy respect for one another and both realized they were important to Dean in their own different ways.

I completely agree. I would even go so far as to say they considered each other friends. From the way he spoke at the end, I think Sam would welcome the opportunity to be friends again.
Would you say Cas would also?

Well, I may be deluded but I thought that Cas valued Sam's friendship very much. Cas face off Lucifer about it in AAH. Cas protected Sam above the world in the S5 Anna episode. SPN never explored it much. But signs were there.

I will always love what I thought I knew of both Sam & Cas' character.

But I think that SPN is retconning for convenience.
Cas was both a horrible & excellent liar in S6.
Cas/Balty's conversation in TTM makes no sense after we hear how Cas started Heaven's Civil war, and that Cas was the only thing keeping Raphael from starting the next Apocolypse.

Is Dean now obsessed with revenge? Despite how Dean thought family was more important than revenge during S1? Despite how badly revenge turned out in S4?

Sorry, rant over.

[jensenRick]

Jan 13, 2012 23:00:42 GMT -5 yimhappy said:

Jan 13, 2012 22:34:57 GMT -5 jensenRick said:

I completely agree. I would even go so far as to say they considered each other friends. From the way he spoke at the end, I think Sam would welcome the opportunity to be friends again.
Would you say Cas would also?

Well, I may be deluded but I thought that Cas valued Sam's friendship very much. Cas face off Lucifer about it in AAH. Cas protected Sam above the world in the S5 Anna episode. SPN never explored it much. But signs were there.

I will always love what I thought I knew of both Sam & Cas' character.

But I think that SPN is retconning for convenience.
Cas was both a horrible & excellent liar in S6.
Cas/Balty's conversation in TTM makes no sense after we hear how Cas started Heaven's Civil war, and that Cas was the only thing keeping Raphael from starting the next Apocolypse.

Is Dean now obsessed with revenge? Despite how Dean thought family was more important than revenge during S1? Despite how badly revenge turned out in S4?

Sorry, rant over.

I'm not sure how we got from what I said to what you are saying, but I didn't want to bring contentiousness to this thread, so I hope that is not where we are going.

If my comments were not appropriate for this thread, I apologize, but I may have been misinterpreted, so I'll try to be clearer.

Sam and Cas had been friends, although not as close friends as Cas and Dean. Cas wronged Sam. Cas was sorry. Sam forgave him. We are in agreement on this, correct?
All I was saying is- I don't think any of that was rendered "meaningless" by Jared's interview. I find a great deal of meaning in the fact that Sam forgave Cas, and that Cas reached out when Sam called to him.

If it was my question "Do you think Cas would also?" - I didn't mean to imply that I doubt Cas's return to friendship with Sam- I just honestly don't know. I find Cas's motives mysterious, so I left the question open ended so that those who know Cas better than I could answer whether they thought Cas would be open to friendship again if and when he comes back.

[yimhappy]

I don't agree with everything this person says. Somehow, I can't shake the feeling that it demeans Dean/Cas's profound "brothers in arms" relationship, to say that there's "sexual tension" there. I see lots of tension, but I have a hard time believing that it's sexual. Although I do think that the writers overplay the hoyay (homoerotic subtext).

Anyway, I'm going to include the link here anyway, because I like it's analysis of Dean/Sam/John, and Dean's discomfort with Castiel.
the-great-dragon.tumblr.com/post/15266655297/supernatural-and-homophobia


A frequent issue I’ve had in regards to the show is that, from season one, it’s constantly made tiny gibes at Dean possibly being gay, or at the very least, feminized (which the show appears to regard as the same thing.) This is supposed to be funny because Dean is both homophobic and sexist. He’s showed obvious discomfort around homosexuals, obvious disgust with anything homosexual and obvious discomfort at being regarded as anything less than manly, all of which can be contributed to his fear of women and intimacy.

Psychologically, this makes sense for the character. From early on, Dean was Sam’s mother and John’s wife/servant. Dean was forced to fill the void his mother’s loss left, which made it impossible for him to mourn, but also created, in his mind, a connection between females and servitude due to the submissive position he’d been placed in. And when John came back at the end of season 1, we all got just a glimpse at the kind of dynamic Dean had been forced into, so it’s no wonder that he overcompensates.

Dean has been symbolically castrated throughout the whole of the Supernatural series, forced to make the sacrifices for Sam that a mother would make for their child and wait on John like a 20’s housewife. Dean’s been placed in such a skewed position as a man that whenever he’s confronted with male intimacy, he recoils. And it makes sense.

Dean was shown nearly no physical affection throughout his childhood, so, as a result, he doesn’t understand it. In his mind, touching means sex, not love. This explains why every time Sam tries to hug him, he responds with a homosexual barb. The interesting thing about this is how easily Sam can show affection. This can be contributed to the fact that Sam wasn’t raised by John like Dean was, Sam was raised by Dean.

The funny thing about Sam and John’s relationship, which could be the subject of a whole other post, is that Sam always treated John like the mean stepfather. Dean was Sam’s mother, Dean raised Sam, and Dean is the one who made Sam who is, so when Dean orders Sam to do something, Sam feels compelled to do it. However, when John tells Sam to do something, he instantly rebels. He tells John that he doesn’t have a right to tell Sam what to do. Basically, it’s like saying “I don’t have to listen to you, you’re not my dad.” Except John is his dad, and both John and Dean constantly have to remind Sam of that. This again places Dean in the feminized position.

Sam obviously has a problem with John’s authority and he’ll only listen to Dean. This is somewhat normal for a father and son, but John and Sam don’t have a father and son relationship. John loves Sam, obviously, but Sam regards John with quite a bit of hostility. This, for me, is representative of the traditional attitude of a child to their mother’s boyfriend/husband. It’s the classic “you took my mother away from me” response. Sam basically shuns John in every conceivable way, going to Dean for all his parental needs, which I think John realizes. Therefore, John undermines Dean as much as possible, pointing out how bad he is at protecting Sam and constantly ordering him around, undercutting his authority in front of Sam. This has resulted in Dean being less of an authority figure for Sam as he is a nurturing figure.

When Sam needs comforting, he turns to Dean, not John. It always struck me that, whenever Sam and Dean hug, it’s so reminiscent of a child hugging their mother. The look on Dean’s face is always so soft and you can tell he relishes the connection, and Sam always looks so in need and then all his fears seem to disappear after Dean hugs him. They don’t hug each other because they’re relieved to see each other, but because Sam needs to feel nurtured and Dean’s driven by his motherly instinct. Of course this only serves to remind Dean of his role in Sam’s life, which is why he’s only willing to hug him in serious situations, although we can see that Sam wishes Dean was more giving of his affection.

This is why, throughout season 6, Dean responded to Castiel with quite a lot of hostility. They do share a profound bond and we can see that they care for each other dearly, but now that Dean doesn’t need Cas around, he becomes uncomfortable. That’s also why Dean had been so focused, in his prior occasions, on getting Cas paired off with a girl. Such as the incident in the brothel. And, when that didn’t work, Dean resorted to something he knew – he treated Cas like a child.

Dean was so uncomfortable with his connection to Castiel, that he opted to take on the parental role once again. We can see a bit of that in earlier seasons, but it’s more prominent in season 6, throughout which he referred to Castiel as a baby or a child and looked down on him as such. Except, this time, he filled the shoes of Father, since Cas’ was missing. And what a terrible father he was.

Dean tried to be the authority figure, but Cas constantly reminded him that they were on equal footing. He treated Dean with respect, expressed his emotions freely, and helped Dean when he needed it. But Dean was so wrapped up in his denial of having any feeling of love for Cas, platonic or other wise, that the demeaned Castiel at every opportunity. Such was his reaction to Castiel discovering porn; he reacted in an abnormally hostile way. Yet, when Cas made out with Meg without permission and in front of everybody, Dean had nothing to say, because sexually harassing a woman (even if she is a demon) is more appropriate than expressing his sexuality around other men. Because homosexuality is represented as unnatural.

[yimhappy]

Jan 14, 2012 12:00:06 GMT -5 jensenRick said:

Jan 13, 2012 23:00:42 GMT -5 yimhappy said:

Well, I may be deluded but I thought that Cas valued Sam's friendship very much. Cas face off Lucifer about it in AAH. Cas protected Sam above the world in the S5 Anna episode. SPN never explored it much. But signs were there.

I will always love what I thought I knew of both Sam & Cas' character.

But I think that SPN is retconning for convenience.
Cas was both a horrible & excellent liar in S6.
Cas/Balty's conversation in TTM makes no sense after we hear how Cas started Heaven's Civil war, and that Cas was the only thing keeping Raphael from starting the next Apocolypse.

Is Dean now obsessed with revenge? Despite how Dean thought family was more important than revenge during S1? Despite how badly revenge turned out in S4?

Sorry, rant over.

I'm not sure how we got from what I said to what you are saying, but I didn't want to bring contentiousness to this thread, so I hope that is not where we are going.

If my comments were not appropriate for this thread, I apologize, but I may have been misinterpreted, so I'll try to be clearer.

Sam and Cas had been friends, although not as close friends as Cas and Dean. Cas wronged Sam. Cas was sorry. Sam forgave him. We are in agreement on this, correct?
All I was saying is- I don't think any of that was rendered "meaningless" by Jared's interview. I find a great deal of meaning in the fact that Sam forgave Cas, and that Cas reached out when Sam called to him.

If it was my question "Do you think Cas would also?" - I didn't mean to imply that I doubt Cas's return to friendship with Sam- I just honestly don't know. I find Cas's motives mysterious, so I left the question open ended so that those who know Cas better than I could answer whether they thought Cas would be open to friendship again if and when he comes back.

Don't worry JensenRick. You're raising good points, and nothing is inappropriate. I went off on a tangent. My "tangent" point was that I'm afraid that SPN will change the meanings of past character actions. Jared's interview seemed a foreshadowing to me.

But yes, I agree with you that Sam forgave Cas for taking down Sam's wall, plus that was a big thing. In fact, Sam forgiving Cas & reaching out to Cas beautifully showed some of the greatness of Sam's character. That kind of forgiveness can be interpeted as profound & heroic.

Also, I see no reason why Cas wouldn't want to be friendly again with Sam, if Cas returns. Toward end of 7.01, Cas seemed like he badly wanted to mend fences & forget the whole Team Free Will break up. Cas came to Sam's call.

What trips me up is that I'm not sure that Sam/Cas are friends, or even if Dean/Cas were friends. Maybe it's my definition "friends", but can you be friends with an alien? Often, I thought that Dean/Sam treated Cas like a friendly alien, rather than a friend. Of course, we didn't see much of Sam/Dean with other hunter friends, so it's hard to compare.

But, I believe that Cas thought that they were all friends. Cas felt friendship with Sam so strongly that Cas went against his own family (Anna), despite a viable plan to stop the Apocalypse. Cas even lied to Sam in that same episode, that killing Sam wouldn't stop the Apocalypse.

Cas told Lucifer that Cas wouldn't let Lucifer have Sam Winchester. Cas was angry at Lucifer's treatment of his vessel. Cas was willing to sacrifise himself for things important to the brothers. Cas weakened himself to take the brother's back thru time so that the brothers could try to save their parents from Anna. These particular actions weren't necessary to "save the world".

Why do I think that Sam/Dean only considered Cas "friendly ally" rather than a friend?? They didn't seem too upset all the times Cas apparently died. But, it's really hard to tell. Sam/Dean's actions toward Castiel could be interpeted as either friendship or how you'd treat a useful ally. If it was friendship, it seemed distant. But then, Cas wasn't the kind of guy you hung out with, definitely more a foul weather friend.

I guess Dean trying to believe that Cas wasn't working with Crowley can be interpeted as Dean feeling Cas was a friend.

Anyway, as you can see, I'm not sure the friendship part. No wonder the article influenced my opinion.

[jensenRick]

Thank you Yim
I totally get what you are saying and I agree. Hey we wouldn't be such fans of the show if it didn't stir strong feelings in us right?

[yimhappy]

Jan 14, 2012 18:27:23 GMT -5 jensenRick said:

Thank you Yim
I totally get what you are saying and I agree. Hey we wouldn't be such fans of the show if it didn't stir strong feelings in us right?

That's for sure. Thanks

I guess that I will be happy with old bits.
I was touched when Sam told Cas, "I still think that you're one of us".
Maybe that's proof of friendship there, "one of us". We'll see if it lasts.

[yimhappy]

[yimhappy]

I warn you lurkers, I'm highly amused at the thought of anti-Destiel lurkers seeing Destiel pic spam.
Why not?? I'm a JS no matter how fair I try to be, so WTH, I'll have fun.
I deliberately pick Destiel pic spam, just to annoy. Have fun.

[yimhappy]

Ooh la la

[AntiArbitrator]

Jan 15, 2012 1:49:41 GMT -5 yimhappy said:

Ooh la la

I am loving the pic spam. This one is very very clever. The don't ask, don't tell one is well done. I don't know where you get these, but please keep 'em coming.

I see you are continuing your "I love em, but have to annoy 'em sometimes" relationships. LMAO!

[AntiArbitrator]

@yim I forgot to mention your Leviathan signature is awesome - and frightening.

[yimhappy]

Hey antiarbitrator,
Can I call you AA?

I really like you're sig line too. Those eyes, and I can't help but stare.
Also, that line "You know I am one of the good guys..." That sounds so familiar, but I can't place it.

[AntiArbitrator]

Jan 15, 2012 17:26:21 GMT -5 yimhappy said:

Hey antiarbitrator,
Can I call you AA?

I really like you're sig line too. Those eyes, and I can't help but stare.
Also, that line "You know I am one of the good guys..." That sounds so familiar, but I can't place it.

The "I am one of the good guys" line comes from the winner of the PCA's "best new drama" series which I voted my fingers off for - Person of Interest. Caviezel is quietly deadly and yummy.

Sure, you may call me AA (will remind me to not drink too much alcohol before I post) or Anti (which is how I act quite often) .

[isitfridayyet]

This is a thread for those who like the character of Castiel and want to talk with the like-minded. This is NOT a debate thread. If you are skeptical about the character of Castiel, this is NOT the place for you. If you wish to start a debate about the character, please start another thread.

Ok, bring on the Cas :heart: and picture !!

[isitfridayyet]

Hey everyone. We made a little thread jump but you'll find all of our messages are here.


YIM..How did you know I was wanting to see some Misha hip bones today??

[isitfridayyet]

Jan 16, 2012 18:57:42 GMT -5 @ohleesa said:

Jan 16, 2012 18:51:20 GMT -5 isitfridayyet said:

This is a thread for those who like the character of Castiel and want to talk with the like-minded. This is NOT a debate thread. If you are skeptical about the character of Castiel, this is NOT the place for you. If you wish to start a debate about the character, please start another thread.

Ok, bring on the Cas and picture !!

You have the best location!