Mistermoonlight
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Crystal the Monkey Fan Club
"The dreamers ride against the men of action. Oh see the men of action falling back."--Leonard Cohen
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Post by Mistermoonlight on Oct 26, 2013 19:18:55 GMT -5
In chapter 64 we finally get to see what happens to Harold Lauder, who is dying on a roadside, his leg smashed to bits when his motorcycle crashed as the result of hitting an oil slick in the road on his and Nadine's way to Los Vegas.
He has gone back to writing in his journal during his final hours. It made me smile to realize that in this story King made the writer one of the bad guys.
Harold seems to have no clue about the forces he's dealing with until Nadine tells him it had all been foreordained and leaves him behind. She's surprised when Harold fires a pistol shot at her. Surprised that Flagg would allow it. I think we see the seed of doubt as to Flagg's ability here. Later on we'll see another kind of seed planted.
Harold writes in his journal (for posterity) that he was misled, but even he realizes that it's a worthless excuse. Finally he apologizes and takes responsibility for his actions. Going out with a bit of the typical Lauder ego, he signs the journal by the name he dreamed he would someday live up to--Hawk. Then uses the pistol to take himself out.
In a way, he has walked the 'bride' Nadine down the wedding aisle, only to fall off a cliff on the way down. Although he thinks about all the writing he has done, including the sign with his name three feet high, he has failed to see the proverbial writing on the wall in terms of his place in Flagg's plans. His own ego blinds him.
In chapter 65 we see things closing in on Randall Flagg, in fact his sight is one of them. His 'third eye' is unable to see the group's final moments with Mother Abigail--he's kicked out of the vision.
Frustrated that he was able to pinpoint the first two Free Zone spies, he has no idea that the vision he has of the moon is a huge clue staring him right in the face.
His memory has started to fail him, too. He can no longer remember the decades before the superflu.
We switch to Nadine's point of view as she is traveling the final distance to Los Vegas.
First she hears a voice inside her that tells her that Flagg did not have control of the situation when Harold shot at her, and that she still had time to turn around. At first, I thought it might be the voice of Sister Abigail that she was hearing, but as I reread the message it didn't really seem to fit her style of speaking. Was it her own conscience? I don't know. But it serves to unnerve her further.
Just before Flagg appears to her in the desert she thinks about lyrics from these two songs:
There's a sense that Flagg has planted those lyrics in her head, for they frighten her suddenly, and neither one is a scary song. It's almost as if Flagg is trying to placate or soothe her with them.
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Post by gilmorefanalways on Oct 29, 2013 23:50:34 GMT -5
Well we are missing eachother lol sorry I've been a bit busy and I'm in bed currently but I'll post my thoughts tomorrow evening and I am off Sunday the third if you are free then I do have a birthday that I'm supposed to attend but if you are free let me know a time  |
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Post by gilmorefanalways on Nov 2, 2013 6:45:37 GMT -5
Seems a lot of crazy happening in my corner of the world sorry I've been away but I'm looking forward to our next meet
Any thoughts on Sunday?
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Mistermoonlight
Administrator
Crystal the Monkey Fan Club
"The dreamers ride against the men of action. Oh see the men of action falling back."--Leonard Cohen
Posts: 8,508
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Post by Mistermoonlight on Nov 2, 2013 23:13:15 GMT -5
I'll be there. I get off at 3pm that afternoon, so looking forward to it.
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Post by gilmorefanalways on Nov 3, 2013 20:36:06 GMT -5
I'm here but seems like we missed eachother again lol
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Mistermoonlight
Administrator
Crystal the Monkey Fan Club
"The dreamers ride against the men of action. Oh see the men of action falling back."--Leonard Cohen
Posts: 8,508
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Post by Mistermoonlight on Nov 3, 2013 20:36:52 GMT -5
Hey, I'm here. And I see you are, too.
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Post by gilmorefanalways on Nov 5, 2013 17:04:41 GMT -5
Whoops I guess I had signed off before seeing this  Well i think since we keep missing eachother I'll post my thoughts up to chapter 65 as you have done and then we can meet this week and discuss a few chapters from that point as well as touch on chapter 59 through 65 I believe it was 59 was our last meet scheduled or 61 either way I will make time anytime you are available during the evenings |
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Post by gilmorefanalways on Nov 5, 2013 17:05:54 GMT -5
Another oops forgot to mention I will do my notes tomorrow as my book is in my husbands car |
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Mistermoonlight
Administrator
Crystal the Monkey Fan Club
"The dreamers ride against the men of action. Oh see the men of action falling back."--Leonard Cohen
Posts: 8,508
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Post by Mistermoonlight on Nov 7, 2013 15:25:55 GMT -5
I'm off tomorrow (Friday.) Does that work for you?
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Post by gilmorefanalways on Nov 7, 2013 18:01:21 GMT -5
Great is 7 good
And I found my copy upstairs lol in my writing office
But sorry I have not posted my thoughts on 65 yet I plan to tonight something unforeseen kept me from it
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Post by gilmorefanalways on Nov 7, 2013 23:52:19 GMT -5
Ok I have reread chapter 64 and 65 just to be fresh on my notes
Ok chapter 64 starts with a slightly more insane Harold writing his farewell letter I guess you could call it or more so an explanation
I was curious as I saw how hard it was for Harold to write is his inability to write due to his purpose being served or due to him dying?
Another question sprang up perhaps it stems not only from his injury but also as Harold clearly reveals in the following paragraphs writing is his life and now he can't write maybe that's a contributing factor to his death
Poor sad Harold realizes his chapter is over and all that's left is to write that final line.
How superbly King writes of a writers constant battle with the blank page how it can be a writers worst fear or best dream all depending on all those thoughts and plots Harold mentioned to mold it the way we wish
How sly and amusing of King to write on pg 959
"He thought of it written in a novel Harold saw the buzzards circling in the sky waiting, he looked at them calmly for a moment and then bent to his journal again."
It's kind I eerie too making you wonder if maybe Harold can see too
And how absolutely crazy does Nadine sound when she says " there's still enough of me left to want full value for mine"
I think Harold was right when he said Flagg knew that Nadine had betrayed him and I believe there will be punishment for her too
How creepy was it the way Harold had felt like he been pushed?
I was really glad that Harold resumed a bit of his mind when he admits to all that he's done and knows how poor his excuse is
On page 968 Flagg is talking about taking his stand so it appears both sides are speaking about taking stands
We also see as you mentioned how things are falling apart for Flagg
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Mistermoonlight
Administrator
Crystal the Monkey Fan Club
"The dreamers ride against the men of action. Oh see the men of action falling back."--Leonard Cohen
Posts: 8,508
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Post by Mistermoonlight on Nov 8, 2013 17:21:26 GMT -5
Great is 7 good And I found my copy upstairs lol in my writing office But sorry I have not posted my thoughts on 65 yet I plan to tonight something unforeseen kept me from it Yeah, 7 is good. That's Eastern time, right? And I'm also off on Sunday if you'd rather do it them. Just found out. |
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Post by gilmorefanalways on Nov 8, 2013 19:03:38 GMT -5
Hey I'm here whichever night is best will be good for me
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Post by gilmorefanalways on Nov 8, 2013 19:09:10 GMT -5
Did you wanna go ahead with tonight it wait until Sunday evening
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Mistermoonlight
Administrator
Crystal the Monkey Fan Club
"The dreamers ride against the men of action. Oh see the men of action falling back."--Leonard Cohen
Posts: 8,508
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Post by Mistermoonlight on Nov 8, 2013 19:10:24 GMT -5
Hey I'm here.
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Mistermoonlight
Administrator
Crystal the Monkey Fan Club
"The dreamers ride against the men of action. Oh see the men of action falling back."--Leonard Cohen
Posts: 8,508
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Post by Mistermoonlight on Nov 8, 2013 19:15:21 GMT -5
Suddenly there are 8 people at my house in my living room. Grrr....and I'm finding it hard to concentrate. I'm thinking Sunday may be better, if you don't mind.
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Post by gilmorefanalways on Nov 8, 2013 19:17:11 GMT -5
No I don't mind my friend Sunday will be good as well
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Mistermoonlight
Administrator
Crystal the Monkey Fan Club
"The dreamers ride against the men of action. Oh see the men of action falling back."--Leonard Cohen
Posts: 8,508
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Post by Mistermoonlight on Nov 8, 2013 19:25:07 GMT -5
Ok, sounds good. See you at 7PM EST tomorrow night!
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Mistermoonlight
Administrator
Crystal the Monkey Fan Club
"The dreamers ride against the men of action. Oh see the men of action falling back."--Leonard Cohen
Posts: 8,508
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Post by Mistermoonlight on Nov 10, 2013 18:48:26 GMT -5
Ok I have reread chapter 64 and 65 just to be fresh on my notes Ok chapter 64 starts with a slightly more insane Harold writing his farewell letter I guess you could call it or more so an explanation I was curious as I saw how hard it was for Harold to write is his inability to write due to his purpose being served or due to him dying? Another question sprang up perhaps it stems not only from his injury but also as Harold clearly reveals in the following paragraphs writing is his life and now he can't write maybe that's a contributing factor to his death Poor sad Harold realizes his chapter is over and all that's left is to write that final line. Good stuff here, looking at Harold as a metaphor for a writer. And on my part, remembrances that when Hemingway found it impossible to write after electroshock therapy, took himself out in much the same way as Harold. How superbly King writes of a writers constant battle with the blank page how it can be a writers worst fear or best dream all depending on all those thoughts and plots Harold mentioned to mold it the way we wish How sly and amusing of King to write on pg 959 "He thought of it written in a novel Harold saw the buzzards circling in the sky waiting, he looked at them calmly for a moment and then bent to his journal again." It's kind I eerie too making you wonder if maybe Harold can see too You're right. I hadn't thought of it before, but the sight of vultures circling over you must be especially horrifying. Again, I'm drawn to Hemingway and the point in "The Snows of Kilamanjaro" in which the protagonist sees the hyenas hovering around him. And how absolutely crazy does Nadine sound when she says " there's still enough of me left to want full value for mine" I think Harold was right when he said Flagg knew that Nadine had betrayed him and I believe there will be punishment for her too How creepy was it the way Harold had felt like he been pushed? I was really glad that Harold resumed a bit of his mind when he admits to all that he's done and knows how poor his excuse is On page 968 Flagg is talking about taking his stand so it appears both sides are speaking about taking stands Yes, the duality here is very interesting. The fact that Flagg sees it as a 'stand' as well serves to knit the novel together more in my view.
We also see as you mentioned how things are falling apart for Flagg |
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Mistermoonlight
Administrator
Crystal the Monkey Fan Club
"The dreamers ride against the men of action. Oh see the men of action falling back."--Leonard Cohen
Posts: 8,508
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Post by Mistermoonlight on Nov 10, 2013 18:54:52 GMT -5
In chapter 65 we see that all holds are off, as Flagg rapes Nadine in a horrible fashion, and he is unmasked to be a demon. At the end she is completely a sufferer of post traumatic stress syndrome, hardly able to react at all. "The blank stare just went on and on."
And, I've got to say that the last sentence from Flagg's eyes in chapter 65 is just superb: " He saw the new look in their eyes, wary and questioning, and he felt the fear touch him again with its light moth wings." I can't think of better way of showing Flagg's weakness. All of this is masterfully written, as it's never told, but rather, shown indirectly.
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Post by gilmorefanalways on Nov 10, 2013 19:07:34 GMT -5
I made a note on that fact It is mentioned in the novel that she has known of him for all her life she must have had at least an inkling of what he is why then is she so surprised horrified of what she has condemned herself to she had plenty of chances to refuse to find another way And hello moon |
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Post by gilmorefanalways on Nov 10, 2013 19:13:00 GMT -5
In chapter 65 we see that all holds are off, as Flagg rapes Nadine in a horrible fashion, and he is unmasked to be a demon. At the end she is completely a sufferer of post traumatic stress syndrome, hardly able to react at all. "The blank stare just went on and on." And, I've got to say that the last sentence from Flagg's eyes in chapter 65 is just superb: " He saw the new look in their eyes, wary and questioning, and he felt the fear touch him again with its light moth wings." I can't think of better way of showing Flagg's weakness. All of this is masterfully written, as it's never told, but rather, shown indirectly. I agree it is masterfully written there are many things we are given in the novel in te same fashion as the above statement and these extras that the reader is given make the story more complete and gives us a better feel for our location in the journey the stand It's like we are right at that spot on the roller coaster the stop before the major drop I feel that's a precise description of where we are in chapters 65 through 67 We can see the drop we have an idea of what's going to happen but are unable to stop it |
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Mistermoonlight
Administrator
Crystal the Monkey Fan Club
"The dreamers ride against the men of action. Oh see the men of action falling back."--Leonard Cohen
Posts: 8,508
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Post by Mistermoonlight on Nov 10, 2013 19:13:35 GMT -5
Hey. How ya doing?
And she did try when she went to Larry, but ultimately she fell back from her attempts to escape her fate to following Flagg.
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Mistermoonlight
Administrator
Crystal the Monkey Fan Club
"The dreamers ride against the men of action. Oh see the men of action falling back."--Leonard Cohen
Posts: 8,508
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Post by Mistermoonlight on Nov 10, 2013 19:15:16 GMT -5
In chapter 65 we see that all holds are off, as Flagg rapes Nadine in a horrible fashion, and he is unmasked to be a demon. At the end she is completely a sufferer of post traumatic stress syndrome, hardly able to react at all. "The blank stare just went on and on." And, I've got to say that the last sentence from Flagg's eyes in chapter 65 is just superb: " He saw the new look in their eyes, wary and questioning, and he felt the fear touch him again with its light moth wings." I can't think of better way of showing Flagg's weakness. All of this is masterfully written, as it's never told, but rather, shown indirectly. I agree it is masterfully written there are many things we are given in the novel in te same fashion as the above statement and these extras that the reader is given make the story more complete and gives us a better feel for our location in the journey the stand It's like we are right at that spot on the roller coaster the stop before the major drop I feel that's a precise description of where we are in chapters 65 through 67 We can see the drop we have an idea of what's going to happen but are unable to stop it There ya go. I agree. And that must have been some of what Nadine was feeling as well. |
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Post by gilmorefanalways on Nov 10, 2013 19:16:49 GMT -5
But remember what joe said
I've forgotten where in the book but joe said Nadine waited until she was sure Larry loved Lucy before she went to him
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Post by gilmorefanalways on Nov 10, 2013 19:18:37 GMT -5
I'm good how have you been
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Mistermoonlight
Administrator
Crystal the Monkey Fan Club
"The dreamers ride against the men of action. Oh see the men of action falling back."--Leonard Cohen
Posts: 8,508
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Post by Mistermoonlight on Nov 10, 2013 19:19:37 GMT -5
But remember what joe said I've forgotten where in the book but joe said Nadine waited until she was sure Larry loved Lucy before she went to him Wow. I must have missed that. It certainly adds to the story. In fact, it seems exactly like everything Nadine did, and makes sense. |
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Mistermoonlight
Administrator
Crystal the Monkey Fan Club
"The dreamers ride against the men of action. Oh see the men of action falling back."--Leonard Cohen
Posts: 8,508
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Post by Mistermoonlight on Nov 10, 2013 19:25:27 GMT -5
In chapter 66 we see a further deterioration of Flagg's control in the suspicion of Flagg's men towards TrashCan Man. If we were to put it in biblical terms, Trash would have been the equivalent of Paul on the road to Damascus.
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Post by gilmorefanalways on Nov 10, 2013 19:28:20 GMT -5
I think she wanted Flagg even though she knew she shouldn't I guess that old forbidden fruit theory but either way poor Nadine has made her bed and now she has to lie in it
And I thought she was already suffering with Harold but looks like that was just the prelude
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Mistermoonlight
Administrator
Crystal the Monkey Fan Club
"The dreamers ride against the men of action. Oh see the men of action falling back."--Leonard Cohen
Posts: 8,508
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Post by Mistermoonlight on Nov 10, 2013 19:33:07 GMT -5
No kidding. She knew more than Harold knew, obviously, but she didn't end up any better than him. Let me qualify that, she met as horrible an end, but did get the chance to redeem herself, which Harold didn't (and probably did not deserve.) In a way, Harold was just another vehicle, like the motorcycle that caused his own doom.
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