CFC (Please Read 1st Post)

[novemberschild]

Hi Anti , That is a very good question about the 3 guys.

I don't know at what point they will say enough is enough. I think that Dean made the only decision he could at the time, he was against a wall and didn't have any other options good or bad and did the only thing he could at the time as bad as it was. He knows better than anyone how Sam will react to an angel possession and yet he still did it. I think Dean's absolute fear of being alone and without Sam was something he couldn't face, not now or ever.

I think that Sam will eventually forgive Dean, for the angel possession, he has always been the one to think things thru more and I think he will come to terms with what and why Dean did it and he will realize the lack of choices that Dean had.
What it going to be the more difficult point to move past is what happened to Kevin, it was Dean's fault, and even though it wasn't really Sam, I don't know how he can, if ever "let it go".

I also think that once Cas realizes what has happened and how much Dean has lied to himself and Sam, that he will be hurt and confused. But I think that maybe Cas and Sam can be a comfort to one another and they could make each other understand why Dean did what he did and make some peace with it.
I think the harder part of the situation is will Dean be able to move past it or will it affect him in ways he has never experienced before. I would like to think that our 3 guys have an unbreakable bond, but this will be difficult to move past and come to terms with. I think that the guys know that they kind of have to stick together because of how high the stakes are, but I think they may never trust each other as they once did, I think that really depends on the remainder of the season.
I am also thinking they may have a hard time within each of them to trust themselves, Dean and his decision, Sam and his "decision" to die, and Cas and what he did to get a grace back.
Stock up on Kleenex!

[AntiArbitrator]

I am stocking up on tissues and might need to invest in a "crying" towel. Every time Dean cries or Castiel looks stricken, I get emotional.

I remember Frank's advice to Dean to get over it, but what he and the others just went through is not something they will stop thinking about - probably throughout the season.

The last conversation between Castiel and Dean shows that they are not harboring anger against each other. Each showed concern for the other and for Sam.

I know Sam and Dean will work together, but it will be overshadowed by anger, guilt (copious amounts of guilt) and resentment.

Of course, they could fool me and say "Aw shucks! We all make mistakes so forget about it."

It is cathartic to chat about these issues.

[novemberschild]

It does help a lot to talk about it ;D

I don't think that what these guys have been thru is something that can simply be "gotten over", I know Frank was trying to help, but that kind of advice only works when you haven't been targeted as the Righteous Man, or sent to Hell, or soulless, or died multiple times, etc, etc.

I find it hard to see the TV myself sometimes when someone is sad, and especially when young Dean was crying

I think Cas will understand that Dean made his choice because of Sam, Cas knows no one in the world is as important to Dean as Sam. But I think he might have a problem with understanding why Dean didn't trust him enough to tell him, though he does know Dean is not someone who tells much.
I do think Kevin's death will weigh heavily on all three as the season goes on.
I think you are correct when you say the guys will work together and will have lots of stress and angst between them, I was hoping that with some of the growth that Dean had showed last year that maybe he would continue and show more growth this year and come clean with Sam once RealSam comes back.

These three need each other, there is really no one else that can help them with the fight, Garth and Jody are around but they have never really dealt with these situations and would only end up in the way or worse.

[AntiArbitrator]

I agree that Castiel will wonder why Dean did not tell him the whole truth about why he could not stay at the bunker. Cas and Dean have had major disagreements before (remember the flayed soul argument?) and Dean still did what he wanted to do. I have thought about several reasons for Dean not confiding in Castiel about that, but none of them were supported in the episodes.

Garth and Jody are around but they have never really dealt with these situations and would only end up in the way or worse.

I do not think either Jody or Garth would survive a confrontation that involved the angels. Now that I think of it, Jody will not want to be involved in any pacts with Crowley - ever!

Question: When do you think Sam stopped being Sam?

[novemberschild]

Hi Anti , Thanks for helping me get in!

It's funny that you ask that because I was thinking about that the last couple of days., I did a quick rewatch of S9 but didn't get all the way thru the last episode. I will need to watch it again, but I am thinking that that maybe about the middle of the episode it isn't Sam anymore but Gadriel being Sam. I definitely will watch it again and maybe I can pick it out a little better.

I think that one of Dean's reasons for not telling Cas is maybe since Cas was human at the time and that if it turned out bad he didn't want Cas in the line of fire. I am not sure, I think Dean picks a line of action and sticks with it, no matter what happens.

I hope that Jody is never around the angels and that she stays away from the demons also, I think we need one female to stay around.

[novemberschild]

I watched the last episode again, and I think there is a slight difference in Sam when he comes back from meeting with Metatron for the second time.
He ends up talking to Metatron 3 times and after the second time when Sam comes into the room with Dean and Kevin discussing the tablet, Sam seems a little different, his posture is different than Sam's normal stance.
He just seems "off" this is just my opinion and I could be entirely wrong but that is what I think.

I also noticed a difference in Cas in being human and then when he became an angel again. He seemed more open, and full of emotions when he was human but when he became an angel again he was more closed off and serious, and focused.

[AntiArbitrator]

November, I think you are correct that Dean did not tell Cas about his deal with "Ezekiel" because he was trying to protect human Cas. Even though I wanted to trust that the angel was good and was healing Sam, I worried that he would do something about Cas if Dean insisted that Cas be with them.

The last time I was sure that Sam was Sam was when he was in the car questioning why he was losing time. The angel taking over after the second meeting with Metajerk makes sense to me.

I adored human Cas. He was so open and optimistic. Then he gets his feelings hurt...time after time...after time.

I hope Jody stays around for a long time. I cannot recall if Castiel ever met Jody. We could ship them.

[novemberschild]

I don't remember Jody and Cas ever meeting, and I don't think they have even been in the same episode. I don't know about shipping them but maybe.
Metajerk?

I liked that human Cas still wanted to help his angelic family after all he had been thru, after they have used him, and tortured him, and treated him horribly going all the way back to Uriel and Zachariah.
Human Cas also saw how humans could be generous even when they had nothing to give, Cas has always thought well of humanity and has always understood that the angels should be looking out for humans. It is a pity that the other angels, well most of the them never felt that way.

[AntiArbitrator]

Jody seems more urban now than the rural sheriff we met years ago. In spite of that, I would never ship her with anyone but Bobby. I do like the thought of human Cas being loved by someone, but warrior Castiel leads a too violent life to play house.

The kindness that humans showed Cas and his acknowledgment of their kindnesses made an impact on me too. Humans have been kinder to him than angels, demons or reapers.

I have faith that Castiel will help to restore the angels to Heaven and that will be his redemption. However, I do not expect the angels to thank him.

[novemberschild]

No one will thank Cas for doing what he wants to do, helping the angels get back home. People hardly ever thank Sam and Dean for all their efforts.

I am concerned about something though and I am trying to be careful in my wording here because I don't want to cause a fuss and this is only based on the sneak peek that I saw, and I realize it makes me seem silly because I have railed on people not getting bent out of shape over promos and spoilers. But How can Dean even think about making any kind of deal with Crowley and in front of Cas? after Dean, Sam and Bobby turned against Cas for working with Crowley, now, now Dean is going to do it all over again?
Seriously? is it do as I say not as I do? Not trying to cause any arguments, but I had to get that out, I don't think Dean truly realizes that Cas looks to him and Sam as teachers and when you learn something from a teacher, and then the teacher tells you that you did wrong and you don't do it anymore, but the teacher goes and does the same thing that they told YOU not to do, what kind of message is that?
Sorry for ranting/whining

[AntiArbitrator]

^^^ Dean did threaten Crowley...so that makes it okay to work with him. In spite of ourselves, we love Crowley too much to do anything like kill him off.

---

I have been seeing stuff on Twitter that Jared must have made a joke or something about Bieber and Bieber must have told his friends to boycott Supernatural.

Misha has been having a lot of fun as a result of Bieber's tantrum. First, he pointed out that the "boycotted" episode had the most viewers since 2010. Then, he said he wonders if he could think of something that really should be boycotted.

[novemberschild]

Jared made a comment to Bieber about something he did and then the Bieber fans got mad about it and threatened to boycott SPN. Jared later said it was a joke, but in watching the news today, it appears that Bieber needs an intervention before he self implodes.
Bieber fans should be wary of the SPN fandom, we are mighty and strong and passionate and I think a 2.7 rating proves that we won't be pushed around

On to Cas stuff- I have a fear that Cas is going to do something to protect or save the guys this season and it may involve him sacrificing himself. He seems different since he was a human and understandably so, he realizes that life is precious and that one shouldn't rush towards death. But I think his affection for the guys and his desire to atone and help may be overwhelming for him and I am worried. He wants to fix heaven and I think as the chasm between Dean and Sam continues, he will work to repair it. I don't know anything for sure, I am just worried about all 3 of these guys this season.
When did I become a mother hen over fictional characters LOL

[AntiArbitrator]

November, you and I both have become mother hens over the guys. I know Castiel is strong and I still worry about him. What you just said helped me to clarify the way I have been feeling. I do think Cas would sacrifice himself for the boys, but I do not feel the boys would sacrifice themselves for Castiel.

That is not a criticism...it's just a feeling that it would not occur to them that it is necessary to rescue Castiel at their own peril. The combination of trying to restore Heaven and trying to help our boys does not give Castiel time to focus on carving out a life for himself.

SPOILER: Click to show

I am still upset that a homeless Castiel was cast out of the bunker. I am never going to be okay with that. Should have demanded better answers to "why".

[novemberschild]

Absolutely ! It would not occur to Sam and Dean to put their lives in danger to help or save Cas. I think they would try and they would feel bad about something happening to him, but I can't see them going to extremes like Cas would for them.

Cas loves humanity and always has and he loves Dean and Sam most of all and has sacrificed everything for them over and over again, and I think he will continue to do that as long as he is able. Cas has offered support and kind words for both of the guys this season, he isn't happy or joyful over their pain, he doesn't want them to hurt and be upset with one another he wants them to be ok with one another. We know the guys will always have disagreements and things will come between them but they always find their way back to each. I think Cas can be a huge help with that, but I don't want him to get hurt or sacrifice himself to make things better.

SPOILER: Click to show

I agree, Cas needed a better explanation other than Dean saying he was trying to protect Sam. Cas could have realized that something wasn't right about whoever was in Sam and then we could still have Kevin.

Cas was alone with no one to help him, no money, no food, no help with learning to be human

[novemberschild]

I re watched the last couple of episodes the other day and noticed something.
When Cas does his experiment with PB&J and discovers that he no longer likes it, I noticed he had all the items needed to make one out and I am guessing that he made one to eat.
My question is why would a angel of the lord need to make a PB &J? couldn't he just snap his fingers and make one? I just thought it was strange,

[SoCal]

For all the Misha lovers

[AntiArbitrator]

That is workplace harassment. Lol.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using proboards

[novemberschild]

So, In a couple of weeks SPN will be back and run thru to the end of the season, my question or concern is what is Cas going to end up being? an Angel, or will Metatron take the other grace out and leave him a human again.

There is another possibility that I don't want to mention, or even think about and the fact that they are being very hush-hush with Misha's status is bothering me a little, It reminds me of the end of S6-first of S7,

I don't like the not knowing again

[AntiArbitrator]

Apr 4, 2014 19:46:32 GMT -5 novemberschild said:

So, In a couple of weeks SPN will be back and run thru to the end of the season, my question or concern is what is Cas going to end up being? an Angel, or will Metatron take the other grace out and leave him a human again.

There is another possibility that I don't want to mention, or even think about and the fact that they are being very hush-hush with Misha's status is bothering me a little, It reminds me of the end of S6-first of S7,

I don't like the not knowing again

Oh...the horror of it all...what is going through novemberschild imagination? Castiel better not be cast as the villain again. In what universe can Castiel be the villain and Crowley be the beloved demon? I want a "happy ever after" story for Castiel.

[novemberschild]

Hi Anti, I am not worried about Cas being made the bad guy again, they have done that and failed miserably with that.

I am actually more worried that he won't be a part of next year, or maybe just a very limited role. I keep thinking that he may sacrifice himself to save the guys/or Dean in an effort to save them from one of their many foes this year, Metatron, Abbadon, Crowley, who knows?

I keep thinking about how he told Sam that nothing was worth more than Sam's life, now that he has been human he has a much greater understanding of what it means to be human and to deal with all those emotions running thru the mind, and that is what I am afraid of.
He could sacrifice himself for the guys. I don't want that.

SPN is about Sam and Dean, but Cas is an important part and I don't want to see him go.

[AntiArbitrator]

I don't want Castiel to sacrifice himself either. I think he will return to Heaven, but I cannot guess what his role in Heaven will be. 

[novemberschild]

I know I am being a worry wart, but I still have that nagging feeling that Cas is going to do something final at the end of the season.

[AntiArbitrator]

You have every right to worry. There is no way this will end well. If Castiel's group of angels is victorious, I bet it will be because he martyred himself as you previously feared he might. If they fail in some way, Castiel will be blamed. It just seems so darn unfair to him.

[novemberschild]

yea, Cas is in a no win situation.
He will be a villain for trying to be a leader, and he will be a villain for not doing enough to help the angels, even though Metatron was the one that tricked him and took his grace to bring about this whole mess.
I have a feeling that Cas will be blamed if he doesn't do enough to help Sam and Dean with Crowley and Abbadon. The only thing that makes me think maybe not, is the fact that the 3 guys seem to be getting along well right now and they all seem to care about one another, I think they are all worried about each other.


I hope Cas has a plan, or Gadreel decides he should switch to the other side, or the guys find a way to get rid of Metatron.
this has a feeling of how it felt at the end of S6

[AntiArbitrator]

I have been wondering why the boys have not asked for Castiel's help in locating Abbadon; maybe they think he has enough to worry about with the angels. 

The end of S6 was heartbreaking and I think we are due for another heartbreak. I do like the way Castiel is getting along with both Dean and Sam. He has been the most forgiving of them all. He does not seem to harbor any anger at them even though they did not help him while he was alone and helpless. I haven't forgotten that.

We probably won't learn anything during the next (vampires) episode so we will have to wait two weeks. 

[novemberschild]

You are so right anti, I totally forgot that the guys had not helped Cas when he was by himself. Well not totally did I forget but, I had put it in the back of my mind. He had to fend for himself after Gadreel/Sam said he had to leave the bunker.

He doesn't have a grudge against either one and hasn't in a long time. Last year when they were on the outs he told them to stow their crap, and now he is trying to get them to work with each other and be brothers. He also doesn't want for either of them to consider themselves as useless and expendable, he only wants them to be brothers again.
The good thing about this episode was that they traded Gadreel for Cas, they saved Cas.

[AntiArbitrator]

novemberschild  That is a good point that they traded Gadreel for Castiel. I never doubted that they would do whatever was in their power to rescue Cas, even though it did put them in harm's way. That brings me closer to forgiving them.

You had mentioned that Cas' motel room looked the way hunters' set up their information. I liked that too and he has learned to think and plan like a hunter. That will give him a better chance of success. I wonder if the book knowledge that was given to Cas will backfire on Metatron. Books, including fiction, contain ways to defeat a foe, and I hope it does bite Metatron.

[novemberschild]

Hi Anti, I read a review today and they said the same thing you did about the "knowledge " that Metatron put in Cas's head, that it could come back to bite him. I thought that was a good point, I think the guys will find someway to defeat Metatron, I just don't know what the cost will be.

They also said that they fully believed that Cas would never betray the angels and was probably working on a way to defeat Metatron. That made me feel a little better, but I am still worried about what may happen.

[AntiArbitrator]

Thanks. That is good to know. Of course, it never crossed my mind that Cas would betray the angels. Did they give an opinion about what Gadreel will do?

[novemberschild]

They seemed to feel that Gadreel is re-thinking things and realizing that he is just a pawn to Metatron, he is only there to do the bad things and that Metatron doesn't consider him an equal. They also felt that Gadreel could really upset Metatron's "story" if he doesn't play the part that Metatron has laid out for him.

They felt that Gadreel was a wild card and could possibly show the guys or Cas the secret door.
That would be funny, Metatron would be all set to kill angels and then poof, they are all gone, they would be in heaven and he would be cut off.